BS 7273-4

[lingmoor]

I dont have a copy with me (in fact I dont have a copy at all!) is there anywhere in there that says where Cat A B C should or shouldn't go...or is it all down to the FRA?

I'm thinking of freedor more than anything else (er is freedor B or C )

[Golden]

Lingmoor I don't have a copy either but there are some quite good summaries on the net; Geofire and West Yorks FB are OK if it is only which category fits where that you are after. Freedor is category B according to their latest press releases.

[lingmoor]

Thanks Golden

I have seen literature that states Cat C and other that states Cat B.

I assumed Cat B requires fail safe to close the door with a power failure...can freedor achieve this then?...I thought it was battery operated

cheers

[Paul2886]

Freedor is battery operated but I suppose technically speaking it does release on a power failure ie: the battery failng. Of course this does not mean on a mains failure which has often lead to confusion about suitability under cerain criteria.

[jokar]

There are tables within the standard that state which type of device is suitable for differing situations, I would suggest that you look at those before making any recommendatation or the enforcer type might throw a spanner and not like the FRA.

[lingmoor]

cheers Paul/Jokar

I was hoping I could get away with blagging the info  ...best get a copy then (groan)

[Tom W]

Freedor is Cat B, we originally thought it was Cat C but no its Cat B.

7273-4 does not tell you which category needs to be installed in any given premises. Annex A gives you likely categorys of actuation but it is down to the risk assessment.

In my opinion the longer the chain of actuation ie boosters the lower the category as the more equipment there is to go wrong.

Ie

Mags - CIE - A
Freedor/Dorgard - Sounder - CIE - B
Retainer - Booster- Transmitter - CIE - C

That is the way I interpret it maybe Colin could let us know if this assumption is correct.

[westerner]

I have also read that any building which is open to the public should be a CAT A and don't know of any radio or accoustic system that can comply, what happens if you lose the main processor on the CIE or the local sounder doesn't work or the activating detector is removed/isolated of the operating intrfacs "freezes"?
This is a nightmare the more you look into it

[colin todd]

Then dont use arrangements that are not Cat A when it is inappropriate to do so.  What is nightmarish about that?

[westerner]

finding something that enables me to comply with this standard knowing the importance of its application - and not being informed by panel manufacturers of their inability to comply

[Tom W]

finding something that enables me to comply with this standard knowing the importance of its application - and not being informed by panel manufacturers of their inability to comply

I work for the manufacturers of Freedor. We supply products that meet Cat A, B & C. Our Cat A device is radio actuated.

I personally have a problem with someone stating a site is Cat A for example. It is saying every door is protecting a high risk. If every room is such a high risk the rest of their fire precautions must be awful.

[westerner]

That is interesting, can you tell me more? How do you comply with CAT A if the Fire alarm CIE is not able to provide a signal to your transmitter of the various state/fault conditions? eg. a comms/processor failure?

I take it this would be a global signal to release all doors? as this might not be acceptable as the hospital has hundreds of fire doors and a few secure doors that may not want to be opened on a device isolation on the other side of the site?

Also what happens if your transmitter fails?
Thanks

[Tom W]

Our units are fail safe.

When you say " I take it this would be a global signal to release all doors? as this might not be acceptable as the hospital has hundreds of fire doors and a few secure doors that may not want to be opened on a device isolation on the other side of the site?"

Im not sure why you would want to open doors in the event of a fire. Our devices close doors, not open them. Our CAT A units have ident settings so you can "zone" the system and instruct each zone according to your evacuation plan.

[David Rooney]

When he says "release" I believe he means release the door from the magnetic retainer thereby closing the door ......

And I do believe I've read there is provision in 7273-4 for buildings to be divided into areas to avoid a single detector being removed in the North Wing closing everything in the South ..... I just can't find it !

 

[kurnal]

See note 2 to clause 21-3 - commissioning.