Premises Guardians

[jayjay]

Has any one had any involvment with Premises Guardians?
These are the people that are prepared to live in empty buildings for a nominal rent in order to maintain an occupier and thefore improve security.

A recent example is a School Building that has closed due to a new build school and has now been occupied by a number of independant people who will be living and sleeping there.

This paricular school is a grant aided school therfore not belonging to the local authority.

The fire safety provisons and previous risk assessmentwas related to school use and now with the proposed use as sleeping accomodation a revised risk assessment will be rquired.

If any one has experience of this situation I would appreciate details on how the RRO was applied and if there was any involvmet of the fire authority.

[jokar]

Unfortunately they are now domestic premises and outside the scope of the legislation.

[nearlythere]

Unfortunately they are now domestic premises and outside the scope of the legislation.

Are the premises not a HMO?

[jayjay]

Hi Jokar

I can not see how they can be classed as a domestic premises. The premises I have been asked about is a recently closed primary school and the Guardians are occupying a number of classrooms. Therefore there will be corridors which will be common areas. The RRO applies to common areas in flats and sheltered housing so it must at least apply to the corridor areas of the school.

Also there is rarely fire separation between classrooms and in older schools the standards of fire separation to exit stairs can be poor and detection can be limited.

Most rented flats will have smoke detection even if it is just battery operated.

My local FRS is looking at this situation so I will advise of any outcomes.

[AnthonyB]

Surely if you can't get it under the RRO there is the Housing Act.

Plus I would have thought they can't be classed as residential without planning permission for change of use and so they would be technically commercial tenants?

[wee brian]

its a material change of use under planning and building regs - the Local Authority should deal with it.

[Mike Buckley]

its a material change of use under planning and building regs - the Local Authority should deal with it.

If its an old school it is probably the Local Authority doing it!

[jokar]

The school is still a school and the residents are just there for security!  Or are they, what is the intention of the owners of the school, is it to reuse the school or are they applying for planning permission for change of use?

[jayjay]

Update
The fire authority are still debating the issue and involving the Envirinmental Health Department. The school is a church school thefore not the responsibility of the Local Authority. The school is a primary school which is being replaced by a new build so I doubt that the builing will be used as a school again.

I will post details of any outcomes just thought some one else may have been through this.

There are number of companys offering premises guardians (do a Google) some say a fire risk assessment is carried out and that the prospective tennannt must purchase a fire safety pack for £80 which is a domenstic smoke alarm, a fire blanket and a small extinguisher.

I will have no involvement in the fire safety issues as the building fire safety responsibility has been handed back to the Dioceses

[Mr. P]

'House Sitters' are performing a service (security) in what ever a small way. By way of renumeration (low rent, free electric, no council tax etc.), they are employed. The RRO covers work places for volunteers, paid/unpaid. Used to be that schools employed caretakers. Different way of looking at it.

[colin todd]

It is simple, straightforward RRO premises and most certainly NOT domestic premises.

[morph]

We have an empty office, 3 floors plus basement, that has been contracted to a Property Guardian company to secure. 3 separate persons are living there with shared facilities.

This building is now a HMO (albeit temporary), in my view, although the Guardian company states it is an office.  FRA does not reflect the temporary use as HMO.

We are now investigating the implications for the organisation.

[kurnal]

A chair is still a chair even though theres no one sitting there.
When I fall asleep in my chair does that make it a bed?

Just a thought.

[Mike Buckley]

This must depend on the intent. To be an office, factory, shop, whatever, it is assumed that the people there will be awake and alert, OK people may doze off but this is not the intent.

If people are intentionally going to sleep on a regular basis it is a different matter.

This is covered in BS 9999 in the A, B, and C occupancy characteristics. If the building is an office it will have an A occupancy, if people sleep there it will be C occupancy.

[wee brian]

Well, whatever it is, contemplating your belly button won't help.

If you think its dangerous, serve a notice.