Standby generator / emergency lighting

[John]

If a premises has a standby generator which activates in the event of power failure, and is tested on a monthly basis, is the owner of the premises justfied in not installing emergency lighting ?

Discuss

[John Webb]

Following experience of generator-only emergency lighting failing to work during the 1973 Summerland fire, I much prefer to have self-contained fittings.
Advantages:
1. Emergency lights come on as soon as mains fails; no blackout while you wait for the generator to start up.
2. With mains voltage, heat damage to cables can cause sufficient leakage current to operate circuit protective devices=no light.
3. You have to have a means of isolating the generator for maintenance. Either an emergency occurs while maintenance is in progress or someone forgets to replace the isolator......

[nearlythere]

If a premises has a standby generator which activates in the event of power failure, and is tested on a monthly basis, is the owner of the premises justfied in not installing emergency lighting ?

Discuss

Absolutely. So long as it provides an alternative power source in the event of a sub circuit failure which nearly all don't.

[John]

If a premises has a standby generator which activates in the event of power failure, and is tested on a monthly basis, is the owner of the premises justfied in not installing emergency lighting ?

Discuss

Absolutely. So long as it provides an alternative power source in the event of a sub circuit failure which nearly all don't.

I'm sensing a "no" in disguise there 

[Phoenix]

No beating about the bush. The answer is no.  Reasons given above.

[John]

No beating about the bush. The answer is no.  Reasons given above.

As with many posts on here, I am sure I knew the answer, just wanted confirmation.

[kurnal]

 Take a look at Annex A of BS5266-1 which gives a summary of standards associated with all aspects of emergency lighting.

Whilst I agree with nearly all that has been posted above there are solutions in the standards.

 It is increasing common with industry and warehousing to ensure business continity by providing a  standby generator capable of running the whole load of the building and not just the lighting.  On Flexipower they often run the generator on a feed in tarrif to the grid. In th eevent of a power cut the  gap between power failure and  generators reaching full load  is filled with UPS systems with battery powered banks on invertors and the lighting circuits are so designed with diversity so all areas are covered by more than one sub circuit.

[AnthonyB]

All the reasons stated, plus does it have the required changeover times in the BS, does it have the fire resistant cabling, etc, etc.

It's rare to find a premises where a central EL system is generator fed, more often you have normal self contained EL for escape/emergency with standby lighting from the generator as part of essential services.

If your system would meet the requirements of BS5266 then you would be OK

[Midland Retty]

On this subject I heard a story, and I'm not sure if its an old wife's tale, involving, apparently, a quite famous football club  (which I won't name)

The club refurbed its stadium and  bought a state-of-the-art, several-thousand-pound generator to power the lights in the stadium and floodlights in the event of mains electrictity failure. It was also to be used as the stadiums source of power for emergency lighting too.

The Local Authority however said that the generator could not be used to power the emergency lighting as it wouldn't kick in quick enough in the mains failure

Having spent a serious wedge of cash on the generator the football club scratched their heads, and decided that on all match days it would power the primary lighting / floodlights by means of the generator, and said that their back up should the genie fail, would come courtesy of the mains electricty.

Apparently the local authority accepted it....

... anyone confirm or deny if that is a myth?  

[colin todd]

Retters, Mrs Retty told you this one evening when she brought you your dinner, while you sat with your feet up watching football and drinking Buckfast, didnt she.  Accordingly, I would not call it an old wives tale, but perhaps a middle aged wives tales??

PS In practice, you can forget about generators actually meeting the legislative requirement for emergency escape lighting.  While it is theoretically possible (hence it is in the BS), you will never see it meeting the requirements in practice.

[Midland Retty]

Thanks Uncle Colin, as you rightly point out generators won't actually meet the legislative requirements for EEL (which the Local Authorty in my little wife's tale pointed out) and because of that I thought the story, however absurd, might actually be true.

And Sir Colin,please, Mrs Midland does not permit any fire safety chat in Retty Towers, or anywhere else outside of normal business hours.

[colin todd]

 Retters: Is that why you keep saying I can come round to dinner, but everytime I am in the armpit of England you fail to actually have me round.

[nearlythere]

Retters: Is that why you keep saying I can come round to dinner, but everytime I am in the armpit of England you fail to actually have me round.

Think you are missing the point here Dotty. You are dinner.i