New UKAS accredited scheme for Fire Risk Assessors

[lancsfirepro]

Ouch. There's never a smilie giving two fingers when you want one!

[Kelsall]

If you read 17024 the certification rules are very clear Colin. The checkers have been checked; in fact the checkers sat in for one of the interviews along with the independent witness we used.  No ethical issues at all 

Sorry if you feel I have the NI thing wrong, perhaps you could correct the mistake for the sake of the limited debate I still think is worth having.

As you well know Colin the views of Kelsall are the views of Kelsall and so opinion isn't always fact. If we can't get back to opinion based debate on this then perhaps Kurnel will lock it and yellow card the two naughty boys!

For everyone's sake. 

[colin todd]

I have read the rules, Kellsy old chap. Thats why I like BAFE SP 205. The checkers (NSI, SSAIB and ECA Certification) have been checked. So, did you have a point to make. And can the right honourable person please answer the question, Mr Speaker, as to who is going to certificate HIS chums. Will it be NSI, SSAIB or ECA Certification. I do hope so.

I was not aware I was being naughty. You invaded Poland metaphorically by making innuendos about the integrity of one of the CBs with whom you are in competition-not great in terms of professionalism. All I did was drop a few bombs on your cities.  Kurnal will forgive and forget a few bombs.

Re NI I will tell you more when there is something to tell. Let me have your mobile number, and I will make sure you are first to know.

[Kelsall]

I thought I had! No ethical issue at all as the process was done with an independent witness and the standard 17024 allows certification within the same organization never mind the same group; should there be no alternative available.

It would help if you stuck in a question mark now and then!

I can not answer for some other department within a group I work for, why would I be able too?

However depending on who actually did your audit there may be a conflict of interest with the relationship you described.

PS you would drop bombs on cities and avoid legitimate military targets; that’s how naughty you are. 

[colin todd]

Aggressive salesman are always legitimate military targets. Piggy and I may go into a lend lease agreement to send warships to bombard your gaffe. If you see a battleship bearing a flag with the St Andrews cross on one side and a dorgard on the other, remember to duck.

[Psuedonym]

Plus it's not too hard to get on the OSCHR either which unlike the rigours of a BAFE examination does little more than check you are with the professional body you say you are, nothing about doing the job.

Whilst the BAFE scheme has many good points (we are going through it this year) it's predecessors in the fire alarm and extinguisher front have not stopped every man and their uncle doing work in that field, making a nice few £££, whilst doing shocking work. Because it doesn't stop the cowboys quite a few decent firms don't go down this route because the overheads aren't worth it as the passed on cost just means the undercutting short-cutters get more work.

Educating the client is the key and whilst everyone in the industry knows about schemes and registers, you don't get your work from the industry!

That's the nature of the game unfortunately, buy a stack of badges and join loads of accredited bodies but the clients don't give a toss as long as the price is right.
There will always be an "i'm ex - "whatever" and can do it cheaper". It has merely brought all the income down for years and no schemes will ever stop that.
Only the real fear of prosecution for not checking and getting confirmation of genuine accreditation will stop it. Can't see that happening though, there's no money for Westminster in it.

[Tom W]

That's the nature of the game unfortunately, buy a stack of badges and join loads of accredited bodies but the clients don't give a toss as long as the price is right.
There will always be an "i'm ex - "whatever" and can do it cheaper". It has merely brought all the income down for years and no schemes will ever stop that.

You've said it all. We were one of the first companies to offer UKAS accredited consultants, it got us zero work and it didn't help us pitch above any other companies.

[colin todd]

Piggers, not to be pedantic, but the assessors were not UKAS accredited; they were CERTIFICATED by a UKAS accredited CB.  Perhaps you could look at getting the company certificated under SP 205-it is growing in popularity virtually by the day!

[Tom W]

Apologies, wrong terminology.

We are indeed going to go through SP205 in the summer as we want an easy way to show our competence on a company level.

I like the way SP205 was written for the trade by the trade. 

[colin todd]

Your are right Piggers. A classic case of the profession putting its own house in order through the good offices of BAFE. There are now 8 certificated firms under SP 205.

Good luck in your application for certification Piggers, if you need any advice or even some consultancy time in terms of getting yourelf up to standard for SP 205, you know where to come...

[lancsfirepro]

if you need any advice or even some consultancy time in terms of getting yourelf up to standard for SP 205, you know where to come...

He employs elves? 

[colin todd]

Thomas is an equal opportunities employer and makes no discrimination agaisnt those who are vertically challenged.

[Tom W]

The elves are only really required during the festive period. They are a good workforce as long as you can stop them bloody whistling.

[Mike Buckley]

Its the dwarves that get me. If I hear 'Hi Ho' one more time.

[jokar]

and 6 out of 7 are not happy.  They need a 3rd party scheme to belong to!