New UKAS accredited scheme for Fire Risk Assessors

[Kelsall]

Longjohn, you sure you quoted the right link. All I could find was a really boring video from some certification body salesman talking about the price of his Tv set.

Aww bless you Colin, it's easy at your age to get confused! The nice man on the video you refer to wasn't selling TVs.

Come on forum guys, lets all chip in for one of those bracelet things; so when he gets lost again (like when he went to the empty cricket ground the other day and started talking to himself) some one can contact his loved ones to come and collect him and take him home.

[Tom W]

It's funny, if Im going to listen to a speaker I want them to be an expert in their subject matter.

Sue Barker presenting MOTD just wouldn't do it for me.

Sometimes I do a presentation, and I include a TV, a flatscreen TV -- we bought one a couple of years ago. And what it narrowed down was that I could get a flatscreen TV for £200 or one for £1,500, but they're not the same thing. So when I narrowed it down, I actually got the same specification, where I was looking at same make, model, standards, same features. Then I could say, "Well, I can get one for £200 there or one for £300 there," and so I went for the £200, because it was exactly the same thing.

[Kelsall]

a·nal·o·gy 
/əˈnaləjē/
Noun
A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
A correspondence or partial similarity.
Synonyms
similarity - resemblance - likeness - parity - parallel

Don't be pig ignorant piglet! I know you love the old man like a dad, but please don't follow in his footsteps; I don't think it's in your nature. I hope not! I won't have a go back as Kurnal will shout; as it doesn't add to the debate.

The point is that I believe that the RP doesn't in many cases complete due diligence when appointing 'contractors' and therefore if they do get prosecuted under the order there is often more they could have reasonibly done to avoid commissioning the offence. That lack of diligence is a common factor in many of the succesful prosecutions and sadly that lack of diligence is also common in the multifatality fires we have had in the UK. Therefore if the RP is to be helped in their diligence the industry has to work a lot harder to help them. One vital area that will assist is to marginalise the poor fire risk assessor and eliminate them from the pool of contractors the RP has to choose from. That will allow experts like yourself, to operate in a semi regulated market place were the standard of advice facilitates high fire standards in many more buildings.

It's a bit like the new food labels introduced to clearly identify the food that is bad for you, in the hope that unhealthy food will not be purchased by the consumer and therefore it will disappear from the shelves; thus making the UK a healthier place. By clearly signposting the good the bad will fall by the wayside.

[Mike Buckley]

'By clearly signposting the good the bad will fall by the wayside.'

This is a fine ideal but the usual experience is that no matter what the label says, for some people a can of beans at 20p is preferable, to a can of beans at 50p.

The issue with FRA work is the people who are prepared to pay are probably not the people who run the risky establishments. The people who run the risky ones want a FRA that tells them God's in his heaven and all's right with the world and will pay peanuts for it, they don't want a comprehensive FRA that tells them they have to spend a lot of money to bring their establishment up to scratch. They are more likely to run on 'it will never happen to me'.

The real way to deal with it is to convince them that it will happen to them and the only way to do that is with more enforcement visits. How likely is that with reducing budgets and less onerous legislation speeches?

[wee brian]

fire authorities could help themselves by recognising an FRA done by a registered assessor and not wasting time nit picking.

They could free themselves up to deal with the dodgy RPs.

[nearlythere]

I don't believe that 3rd party accreditation can necessarily maketh the man. If the F&R Service would just reject those Assessments that don't measure up word will get about that Acme Fire Safety Inc. and the like do not produce the goods. Market forces.

[Mike Buckley]

I agree with you nearlythere but it still relies on the Fire Brigades getting out there and pounding the pavements to pick up the dodgy FRAs. It comes back to the perception of the RPs. What is the chance I will get caught? and what will happen if I do?

If the answers are: 1 remote and 2 a slap on the wrist there is not much deterent. If the answers are: 1 quite likely and 2 having to get a proper FRA done and pay for two FRAs ( one cheap and nasty, and one more expensive but good) the word will get around and the cowboys will be weeded out.

But it still relies on someone policing the FRAs or making accreditation compulsory or both and our lords and masters in the Whitehall Ivory Towers are not inclined to do either! You only have to look at Eric Pickles reply to Lakanal to see that.

[Golden]

Regardless of TPA the word also needs to be spread that inaccurate FRAs although cheap may involve paying out more money in the longer term to upgrade doors, provide extinguishers, lighting and signs, etc, etc. that are actually not required. I hear what is being said about TPA not being the panacea but at least those on the list have had some sort of examination of their credentials and experience; or that the company is bound by some sort of code of practice.

Looking forward to my IFE register interview later this month - just sixteen months after applying!

[colin todd]

If I ever want to buy a TV, I will definitely come to see Kelsall.  He is certainly the biz in the TV field. Do these nice Warrington people do TPC of TVs?

[Kelsall]

We do but they have lots of different channels on them. The one you want only has CST TV on; 24/7

[colin todd]

Its a lot better than the shopping channel, where all you get are advertorials by people trying surreptitiously to sell the products of their sponsors.

[Kelsall]

Why don't you watch the clip again! This time take your I hate Kelsall glasses off. I formally challenge you to tell everyone on the forum what constitutes a sales pitch in that clip? You are wrong Colin! But you are so focused on 'loving Colin' that I dare say you will fail to post an apology!   

[colin todd]

 I dont hate you.  I just wish you would tell everyone what you do for a living so that they can interpret your views accordingly.

[Kelsall]

I dont hate you.  I just wish you would tell everyone what you do for a living so that they can interpret your views accordingly.

What has it got to do with you who I work for?

There are hundreds of members on this site with forum names who have opinions, why am I singled out?

Where was the sales pitch in that clip?

The Australians have a very good saying about people who have opinions about others but who fail to look at themselves with the same level of scrutiny. You are as they say down under 'up yourself'.

PS Where was the sales pitch?

[colin todd]

You have one record that you play all the time, banging on about 3rd party certification.  Even people who believe in third party certification find it tiring.  Any one would think you were a salesman for a CB.  The TV waffle was said much more eloquently by John Ruskin in the 19th century, and it was hardly rocket science even then, fascinating though your dissertation on the purchase of your tv was.