Author Topic: Fire Doors  (Read 14886 times)

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 03:50:36 PM »
Following on from Firshy's post... don't mix and match graphite or sodium sillicate intumescent strips (not sure how relevant this is but just thinking in case you have combined intumescent strips / cold smoke seals fitted on your doors Nearlythere). 

SS strips will activate at 100 deg C, Graphite anywhere between 170 Deg C to 300 deg C .

I'll ask a silly question Nearlythere - do you happen to know if the doors were supplied as a certrified doorset?

 

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 04:01:24 PM »
Following on from Firshy's post... don't mix and match graphite or sodium sillicate intumescent strips (not sure how relevant this is but just thinking in case you have combined intumescent strips / cold smoke seals fitted on your doors Nearlythere). 

SS strips will activate at 100 deg C, Graphite anywhere between 170 Deg C to 300 deg C .

I'll ask a silly question Nearlythere - do you happen to know if the doors were supplied as a certrified doorset?

 
Not sure MM. Apppear to be sets.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Midland Retty

  • Guest
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2013, 05:24:49 PM »
You have to be a little careful with certified doorsets to a certain degree.

For example the following stipulations normally apply to certified doorsets:-

In an earlier post someone suggested, quite reasonably, to fit new fire rated hinges if the doors had dropped. Your client should only replace those hinges with exact 'like-for-like' replacements, if its a certified doorset.

If larger strips or the replacement hinges don't succeed in closing the gap your client may consider replacing or altering the doors. Depending on how the door set has been certified and by whom, it isn't just a question of asking Joe Bloggs the local chippy to whip them off and replace or alter them, as doing so will render the certification null and void.

Any alterations normally have to be done by an authorised manufacturer or agent, and any replacement doors will need to be exact like-for-like doors (complete with exactly the same ironmongery, hinges, strips and seals or glazing which were certified).

Furthermore you can't just replace one leaf at a time - some certifying bodies state that if you replace one you should replace both even if only one is damaged.

Not saying I agree with the above but I do understand why those stipulations exist, you can only certify something that has been tested in a certain combination. I've seen many get caught out by that, they think they have certified door sets when infact they haven't. It is down to the fire safety professional or RP to decide whether the above are important factors or not.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 05:40:21 PM by The Manic Midlander »

Offline Auntie LIn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 05:17:15 PM »
Sorry to come back so late to the party but lancspro - I'm quite chuffed that you thought I might be a troll!   When I was a little girl (in 1800 and frozen to death) there was a song about three billygoats gruff and the troll Voll-de-roll threatened to "eat them for supper"!   Watch out - I might bite!!

Seriously - filling up the gap with smoke seal won't necessarily help the overall fire resistance as at least one of your other responders has said.   It's sad, isn't it, that fire doors, which are a vital safety component in buildings, are left to the mercies of whoever isn't doing something else to fit?
It was ever thus, it seems.   This may be why groups like BM-TRADA and Certifire have schemes whereby they will register installers of fire doors.
I know most of you chaps aren't in a position to require registered installers to be used, but it would be very helpful if you could beat the drum a bit and try and spread the message.


Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 06:27:02 PM »
Sorry to come back so late to the party but lancspro - I'm quite chuffed that you thought I might be a troll!   When I was a little girl (in 1800 and frozen to death) there was a song about three billygoats gruff and the troll Voll-de-roll threatened to "eat them for supper"!   Watch out - I might bite!!

Seriously - filling up the gap with smoke seal won't necessarily help the overall fire resistance as at least one of your other responders has said.   It's sad, isn't it, that fire doors, which are a vital safety component in buildings, are left to the mercies of whoever isn't doing something else to fit?
It was ever thus, it seems.   This may be why groups like BM-TRADA and Certifire have schemes whereby they will register installers of fire doors.
I know most of you chaps aren't in a position to require registered installers to be used, but it would be very helpful if you could beat the drum a bit and try and spread the message.


What would be your suggestion Lin for filling a 5mm gap?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Auntie LIn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 07:51:42 PM »
Whatever's done, it won't necessarily be a cheap option.   I think you'd need to look at the total space in the top and bottom gaps.   If the top gap is 5mm, what is it at the threshold?   If it's less than that, then you do wonder whether something has happened to cause the leaves to drop within the frame.   If it's more, it could just be shoddy fixing.   If the total gaps are really big there might be a case for unhanging the doors, carefully lipping at the bottom with identical timber and rehanging.   As I said - not necessarily a cheap option.

Offline kurnal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6489
    • http://www.peakland-fire-safety.co.uk
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2013, 11:05:11 AM »
I had a bit of a shock when a client called me to tell me of his experience. In my FRA I had recommend that three doors be upgraded to half hour fire doors FD30S SC. I of course recommended that he appointed  an accredited contractor under one of the fire door accreditation schemes. Whilst we cant discuss prices or costs due to Competition Law I was surprised that the difference in the quotes. If installation of a standard fire door set from a builders merchant by a competent but non accredited builder was X, the quotes from accredited installers were 3X. What price accreditation? What is best value?

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: Fire Doors
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2013, 02:20:21 PM »
Whatever's done, it won't necessarily be a cheap option.   I think you'd need to look at the total space in the top and bottom gaps.   If the top gap is 5mm, what is it at the threshold?   If it's less than that, then you do wonder whether something has happened to cause the leaves to drop within the frame.   If it's more, it could just be shoddy fixing.   If the total gaps are really big there might be a case for unhanging the doors, carefully lipping at the bottom with identical timber and rehanging.   As I said - not necessarily a cheap option.
Don't think the door dropped as it is double swing with floor springs.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.