Common areas of flats

[Mar62]

Wondered if someone is able to confirm whether a part 6 type system grade LD3 is now acceptable within the common areas of a newly built purpose block of flats with ground and 3 upper floors with one staircase? I dont have access to any of my standards or ADB at the moment and am struggling finding anything in writing to say it is or it isnt. I havent been able to gain access to any flats at present either.

[William 29]

Hi Martin, if they are purpose built and new why would you want a common fire alarm if the construction is suitable for the residents to stay put?  Have a look at the link below the guide is a free download.


http://www.local.gov.uk/c/document_library/get_file?uuid=71e152a6-9e0a-4810-aee6-498167664f79&groupId=10171

[Mar62]

My sentiments entirely! I'm not saying I would have recommended it. They have fitted it and am just wondering if its something that planning or BC now allow at design stage?

[Mar62]

Personally I dont  see the need.

[William 29]

unless you can find out why is was installed as a trade off for lack of compartmentation?  Or is the AFD there just to open an AOV? As long as there are no sounders in the common area or linked to the flats that would be fine.

Sorry it read like you were thinking of installing a common alarm

[Mar62]

No sorry William, I didnt explain myself properly. Just looking for a reason why they have installed it. it seems strange. There is separate AFD for smoke vents.
Compartmentation all seems good where I have been able to access. All the risers have been fire stopped well. All VP's are Pyrodur glazing. Unfortunately I dont have access to any flats though as they are all occupuied and no one wants to give me access even for a couple of mins. I'm baffled (nearly).

[Mar62]

just expanding on description. They are mains powered interlinked smoke alarms fitted within the staircase enclosure and lobbies.

[William 29]

Sounds like the builder has just thrown the AFD in for good measure based on more is better principle, I see a lot of these and in some cases very large developments, came across a brand new block in Preston a while ago 150 dwellings over 6 floors with a common alarm at an install cost of £40k.  The managing agents were not impressed when we did the FRA and questioned the need for a common alarm system and even argued it made the situation worse as in the event of a fire in any flat it would generate a full evacuation general alarm evacuating all residents.
I suppose in your case if the AFD system does not extend into the flats then that is not as bad but its still not right on a new build.

[Mar62]

Same here. This is a very large Housing Assoc with a variety of different types of housing. This one is general needs only. No special requirements to speak of.
I'm going to do the same and question its existenece and purpose.

Thanks William

[kurnal]

I have come across the same and normally make a recommendation if I think they are not required they should be removed.  If they are kept then they must be subject to full maintenance and test regime. Trouble is its not so straightforward because in  my experience a lot of them are put in as a result of NHBC influence and so are part of the Building Regs fire safety package.

[Mar62]

Thanks for your input Kurnal. Looks like thats the road to head down..............

[Northern Uproar]

I've come accross housing associations that have L1 fire alarms in their contract spec for new builds - I have no idea if its a result of risk assessments in other buildings where there are compartment issues and they've made it a blanket policy, and they go a bit nervy when you suggest they take it out. as with many H&S issues, there is the assumption that the more you put in, the safer it must be and if you put the maximum in then everything is covered so it won't come back on the manager responsible.

I have seen BCO's and Fire Officers collude to try and get full fire alarm systems in new blocks - they try and use the 'we'll get you under the RRO' line to spook people - also had to deal with them trying to get disabled call points and refuges in buildings with no on-site manager (apparently, no staff was a reason why the intercoms should be there. No word on who was supposed to be at the other end)

[Midland Retty]

This a common scenario. As already pointed out AFD may have been installed to compensate for compartmentation issues or reduction in level of compartmentation at design / construction stage.

Some of the housing associations in my locale seemed perturbed by the Lakanhall incident and began to retro fit alarm systems in many of their low and high rise stock.

Some are generating substantial false alarms much to the annoyance of residents. Very counter productive.

I'm suprised at Northern Uproar's comments about FSIOs and BCOs colluding to have alarms put in as that is not my experience, but nevertheless.

It is important to establish why the alarms were fitted - Installed for compensatory purposes? or was it one of those things on the "nice to have" list?

[colin todd]

A Part 6 system is not fit for purpose even if there was a reason to install.

[Dinnertime Dave]

I'm suprised at Northern Uproar's comments about FSIOs and BCOs colluding to have alarms put in as that is not my experience, but nevertheless.

It is important to establish why the alarms were fitted - Installed for compensatory purposes? or was it one of those things on the "nice to have" list?

I`m surprised too, I don`t know any FSO who would recommend an alarm system in common areas. they are a continual pain in the butt.

Also, the original post said that the flats were newly built. Therefore, there shouldn`t be any need for any compensatory alarms.