Author Topic: Lakanal Inquest - How far does the FRA need to go?  (Read 5017 times)

Offline William 29

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Lakanal Inquest - How far does the FRA need to go?
« on: April 10, 2013, 09:56:39 PM »
My question is in light of the Lakanal House inquest findings, how far does the FRA now need to go to be suitable and sufficient? From my knowledge of Lakanal from seminars even if an FRA had been done on the block you would have needed a chain saw to identify the defects in compartmentation that contributed to the unusual fire spread. Also worthy of note is even with these defects there was a significant window of opportunity for all occupants to escape from the time of ignition or the first signs of fire affecting a flat that was close to the 60min mark in some cases so could it be argued that the flats fulfilled their function? The guidance we issue to RPs regarding stay put states that residents are safe to remain in their flats (unless it is their flat on fire) unless directed to leave by the fire service OR smoke and flames affect their flat.

In the various letters issued by the Coroner it was stated that a fire risk assessor should inspect individual flats to be able to “inspect any features which cannot be seen from the outside which may breach compartmentation”. So what is now reasonable in terms of how many flats are accessed to determine if any compartmentation issues are evident and to what invasive level if any? Is a tap with the back of a hand on a compartment wall enough in light of the inquest outcome?? Should we be completing “type 4” assessments where there are any doubts or in all cases?  If one or two flats were found to be ok there would be no guarantee that the other flats have not got compartmentation issues, indeed this cannot even be a definite on a new build with a completion cert. Or would it be reasonable to accept this?

I think what is needed is a reasonable approach and a covering statement in the FRA to cover the RP and the assessor. Where a RP states there have been known alterations to flats and the FR may be suspect let’s say new heating systems were installed in all flats and this was some time ago and the quality of that work can’t be confirmed. In this situation there is a case for inspecting this work for breaches in a number if not all flats.

Is it reasonable to ask the RP if there any known alterations to the flats that would affect compartmentation and if the answer is no then record this in the FRA but I suspect many RPs will come back with “not known”  Does the RP write to all the flat occupants asking for confirmation of any/no alterations?

Where a building has a completion certificate and a fire breaches the compartmentation, who is responsible? The builder, the person issuing the completion certificate or the fire risk assessor? Fire risk assessors have to take somethings at face value and without destroying every building we walk into.

Any thoughts please?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 10:00:35 PM by William 29 »

Offline Golden

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Re: Lakanal Inquest - How far does the FRA need to go?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 08:40:26 AM »
It all depends on what the client is paying for - Type 1 to Type 4?

Lets face the brutally honest truth here and realise that most clients will not be paying for Type 4 assessments and my mode of operation is to carry out the type 1 assessment as contracted and if I have any doubts about the construction or compartmentation standards beyond what I can reasonably see by opening up a few cupboards and taking down some ceiling tiles then I recommend that a further and more invasive inspection is carried out. This may be carried out by me alone or accompanied by somebody with a more in depth knowledge of building construction. Another fact of life is that if you go about telling clients that they need more invasive inspections and quote accordingly you will not get much work and the contract will probably go to FRAsonline.com who will do risk assessment for the price of a pub lunch.

William you are right that the compartmentation at Lakanal did hold up for some time however there were some obvious (non FR/wedged doors, service penetrations, etc.) and some not so obvious (PVC window panels) defects in the fire separation that allowed the fire to spread. In my opinion its not necessary to find every single recessed plastic socket in a partition wall unless there are real underlying concerns.

Offline wee brian

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Re: Lakanal Inquest - How far does the FRA need to go?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 12:51:49 PM »
If you walk into a building built in the 1950s and it looks like it hasn't ben looked after then you should suggest that a more thorough review is carried out. This could be a recomendation in your report/FRA.

Offline longjohn

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Re: Lakanal Inquest - How far does the FRA need to go?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 06:53:54 AM »
It all depends on what the client is paying for - Type 1 to Type 4?

Lets face the brutally honest truth here and realise that most clients will not be paying for Type 4 assessments and my mode of operation is to carry out the type 1 assessment as contracted and if I have any doubts about the construction or compartmentation standards beyond what I can reasonably see by opening up a few cupboards and taking down some ceiling tiles then I recommend that a further and more invasive inspection is carried out. This may be carried out by me alone or accompanied by somebody with a more in depth knowledge of building construction. Another fact of life is that if you go about telling clients that they need more invasive inspections and quote accordingly you will not get much work and the contract will probably go to FRAsonline.com who will do risk assessment for the price of a pub lunch.

William you are right that the compartmentation at Lakanal did hold up for some time however there were some obvious (non FR/wedged doors, service penetrations, etc.) and some not so obvious (PVC window panels) defects in the fire separation that allowed the fire to spread. In my opinion its not necessary to find every single recessed plastic socket in a partition wall unless there are real underlying concerns.
Well said Golden, sums it up nicely along with Williams comment 'covering statement in the FRA to cover the RP and the assessor' the assessor has to spend more time writing in (back) covering statements and footnotes in the assessment than anything else in a fire risk assessment these days, should it really be that way? litigation culture? jack booted fire cops? then all of these clients rushing to pay for a type 4 assessment! ha, ha, marvellous this ere' consultants charter innit!