Escape via kitchen in flats

[William 29]

I have come across a block of flats recently where the front door opens directly into the kitchen with living accommodation off to the right and sleeping to the left. The block is purpose built probably around 1965-1970, has anyone come across this layout as an orginal design?  I first thought the occupier had made changes but she says not and other flats have the same layouts.

The only solution I can think of (other than majory surgery changing the layouts) is providing a heat detector in the kitchen linked to smoke detection in all other habitable rooms?

[kurnal]

How many storeys?
I have recently come across a similar set up built in the 1930s where the only door opened into
the kitchen which then led tothe lounge and the bedrooms opened off the lounge. Because I want to sleep at night the only solution I was prepared to offer was major internal remodelling. I was convinced it could be done but the Landlord wanted me to come up with an alternative such as water mist. I told him what my boundaries were when I quoted and I heard no more from him.  I guess he went elsewhere.

[AnthonyB]

The flat design in a newish build I am familiar with had the kitchen next to the door,then open living space and finally the bedrooms & bathrooms, it got approval via LD2 detection and a sprinkler system throughout each flat, this was a fully piped mains fed system, not a mist   system from a small tank

[kurnal]

Did you have to pass through the kitchen to reach the door Anthony?

I just might have considered a proper sprinkler system for a few fleeting moments in my job but in any case there was insufficient room to site the tank and pump in the flats and the Landlords supply was not suitable.

[William 29]

Hi Kurnal


5 floors at the front elevation: Ground, first, second, third and fourth.
5 floors at the rear elevation: Lower ground, ground, first, second and third.

Purpose built constructed from brick walls, concrete floors and concrete stairway with a flat roof.
The front entrance door leads into a central stairway with the 10 flats all located off the central stairway. At the head of the stairwell is a roof light and permanent air vent. At lower ground floor level there are storage lockers for resident’s personal items.

The point I wanted to get to if we are benchmarking is, if this is the orginal design why was this accepted then and if not acceptable now was is a reasonable compensation i.e. full AFD, I think altering the layouts is a non starter and would never happen, same with water mist or sprinkers.

[kurnal]

The whole thing did not comply when it was built and does not comply now- in respect of the protection of the communal areas and internal flat layout. In my area the Housing Officer would jump in with both feet and serve a notice. Clearly mistakes have been made by others in the past but if you do make recommendations you shift the whole burden of responsibility of other peoples mistakes onto your own shoulders.

I agree we are often asked to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and usually I take some comfort from leaving a place a little safer than it was even if still non compliant.  But in my opinion the benefit of putting linked smoke and heat alarms in the place, with a heat detector in the kitchen would be so microscopic as to be  insignificant.

(Always assuming I understand you correctly - that the kitchen is the only escape route from the rest of the flat and all kitchens open directly onto the staircase in a five storeys single  staircase building with no lobbies to the staircase?)



 

[William 29]

Thanks Kurnal

[AnthonyB]

Did you have to pass through the kitchen to reach the door Anthony?

I just might have considered a proper sprinkler system for a few fleeting moments in my job but in any case there was insufficient room to site the tank and pump in the flats and the Landlords supply was not suitable.

Enter the door and you have to pass the fitted kitchen area on your left in order to reach the rest of the open living space and the short corridor with the bedroom and bathroom off it.

Other than the architect & AI at the time no-one likes anything about this particular development as the relaxations on layout, stair requirements and various other things obtained on the back of residential sprinklers that each flat can turn off at will and a fancy smoke management system that is vulnerable to failure

[Golden]

NT are you talking about developments built to the general specifications referred to in the NHBC report on open plan flat layouts - http://www.bafsa.org.uk/pdfs/publications/00000088.pdf ? I wasn't aware that any had been accepted but its now five years since the report so it was likely that they had. I don't like the idea of no automatic venting from the flat in case of fire as well as NTs concerns over residential sprinklers being used; I also have grave concerns over the assumption in this study that in the ADB compliant scenarios the inner room doors would be open as self-closing devices are no longer a requirement!

Back to the original question I'm with Kurnal on this one; AFD is only going to give you a little extra protection - to be honest I'm surprised this design was passed even in the 1960s and I'd have expected some alternative means of escape to be provided albeit a MoE that isn't considered acceptable today but might get you out of a hole.

[William 29]

I have just been informed the building was constructed in the late 1960s and actually won an architectural award???

[kurnal]

Golden the general recommendations of the NHBC report were included in BS 9991 and so bedrooms as inner rooms are acceptable provided they are sprinklered.  I personally feel uneasy about it but what can you do.

But kitchens as access rooms are something else.

William it just goes to show the value of some of these awards. I recollect a new development in London a couple of years ago that also won an award with next to no compartmentation and next to no provision for firefighter safety that also won an award and a celebratory write up  in the IFE magazine.

New Street Station Birmingham also won a number of awards. Thank goodness its being demolished now.  Exemplar designs for schools....I could go on

[William 29]

The plot thickens as the client tells me not every flat door opens direct to the kitchen which may indicate residents have made changes but it's still odd.

[William 29]

Some more info from a resident:

 "I remember when I first bought my flat there was evidence that there had been a rail on the ceiling in the kitchen which in my case ran the length of the kitchen forming a corridor to the front door I asked the owner about it and he said there used to be a fire curtain or some sort of folding screen there to separate the kitchen incase of fire and I would guess these have over the years been removed.  That's all I know I hope it helps.  Also I think all the flats entrance doors open in to the kitchen".

Has anyone seen this? How did it operate?  This may have been why it won a design award!?

From what I know I think all flats have removed this "curtain" and even if it was in place, I doubt it would still function as intended.

I am thinking water mist system in the kitchen along with interlinked AFD in all rooms. I am not aware of any type of curtain corridor replacement? And I dont think there is space to provide a solid corridor to seperate off the kitchen.

Any further ideas would be welcome.

[kurnal]

If there was room for a curtain to create a protected route is there not room for a stud partition?

[Midland Retty]

Hi William

What type of residency do you have in these blocks? for example are the residents tenants (i.e renting) or leaseholders (i.e owner/occupiers) or a mixture of the two?

I ask because this could have a bearing on what solutions you decide to put forward and the way you tackle the situation.