Fitting Fire Door.

[Tom Sutton]

I'm currently about to fit a bwf fd30 front fire door to my property as it has to be up to regulation standard for council insurance purposes. I'm unsure whether I need to fit 2 or 3 hinges to this door and also may I use a perko style door closer or will it have to be a overhead style closer? if using a perko style closer how do I prove its fire rating for inspection purposes or do I not need to so long as it closes the latched door?

Another query any observations.

[Dinnertime Dave]

You need three hinges (preferably tested as part of the door set) and a closer to BSEN 1154.

[Davo]

Tom

the newer perko is fire rated as I recall, much more discrete

davo

[Dinnertime Dave]

Tom

the newer perko is fire rated as I recall, much more discrete

davo

Some are davo, but they cost a fortune.

[Golden]

Another issue you have to consider with Perko/chain type devices is that they do tend to slam the door if not adjusted correctly and can cause problems for little fingers or alternatively take the door out of the frame over time!

[nearlythere]

Tom

the newer perko is fire rated as I recall, much more discrete

davo

Many are fire rated Davo and claim compliance with BS476 which is fine. But BS476 is not BS EN 1154.

[Tom Sutton]

The Perko Powermatic Concealed Fire Door Closer is CE marked and Certifire Approved CF370 also complies to BS EN 1154:1997 therefore it is acceptable the other perkos are not.

[Dinnertime Dave]

The Perko Powermatic Concealed Fire Door Closer is CE marked and Certifire Approved CF370 also complies to BS EN 1154:1997 therefore it is acceptable the other perkos are not.

I Concur with TS. Some do comply at about £150-£180 per closer last time I looked, so they only tend to be used where the option of overhead closers isn't available. 

[Tadees]

Tom

the newer perko is fire rated as I recall, much more discrete

davo

Many are fire rated Davo and claim compliance with BS476 which is fine. But BS476 is not BS EN 1154.

And what is the issue if it complies with BS476 and and not BS EN 1154?

[Tom Sutton]

And what is the issue if it complies with BS476 and and not BS EN 1154?

BS EN 1154 Building hardware. Controlled door closing devices. Requirements and test methods, I am not sure how BS 476 would apply, which part for a start.

[nearlythere]

Tom. What do you mean the perko is fire rated? I've seem perko being sold as complying with BS476. But that is different to 1154.

[Fishy]

The original enquiry said it was a "bwf" door - which probably means it comes from a BWF Certifire registered company.  They should therefore ask whoever supplied the door leaf to ask for the certification documentation & installation instructions.  Failing that the manufacturer will be named on the label (assuming they haven't removed it) & they should contact them for the installation instructions directly.  The Certifire documentation will probably tell them what closers are compatible with the particular door leaf they've chosen.

[Tom Sutton]

Tom. What do you mean the perko is fire rated? I've seem perko being sold as complying with BS476. But that is different to 1154.

Once a self-closer has closed the fire door, the latch holds the door shut, and the self-closer is redundant which should be before the fire reaches the door, so why do you need a fire resisting test. The only way I can see how a perko needs to be fire resistance tested is to subject a fire door to BS 476 pt 22 with a perko installed and the without the perko and see if it affects the performance of the fire door?

BS EN 1154 is the standard for self-closers and I cannot think why you would need to test them to BS 476 other than what I said above.

[Fishy]

Advantages of 'Perkos' (generic description - other makes of jamb-mounted chain closers are available...)!

- Cheap(ish)
- Aesthetics (concealed);
- Slightly more difficult to disable than face-fixed overhead closers (where you just unscrew the arm).

Disadvantages:

- Take chunks out of the door (might need extra protection e.g. intumescent gaskets);
- Non-hydraulic models cause slamming (& this gets very annoying in a domestic setting);
- Difficult to adjust so that they reliably overcome a latch (particularly a night latch) - again, without slamming;
- questionable whether they'd reliably hold an unlatched door shut in a fire (e.g. a flat door 'on the latch').

Mechanically, the overhead closers are much better devices.

[Golden]

In my experience they can 'bounce' the door off the latch, trap fingers and on a few occasions have removed the door frame from the surrounding wall. Many authorities do not accept single chain type closers particularly in HMOs.