Author Topic: BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel  (Read 88193 times)

Offline crashball75

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« on: August 23, 2005, 01:39:17 PM »
What is anyones view on performing search with Hose reel and then using the hose reel as a guide line to get back to the entry point. I am very uncomfortable with this as not only does it mean the BA search team do not have control of the branch (for use in gas cooling and proper door entry procedures) but I can see no way that you could be sure the hose would either stay in the same place or even worse you attach your personal line to a hose which ends up in a big jumbled mess and you are totally disorientated.

I am pretty new to firefighting so didn't want to overly argue the point but would welcome any comments from more experienced members

(excellent site by the way which I stumbled accross by accident)

Offline Paul

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2005, 04:46:43 PM »
I have never heard of anyone attaching themselves to hose.  Is this something new??

I don't even like the idea of guide lines never mind this scenario.I don't have a problem with using the hose as a guide to quickly find your exit, as this has been common for years.

Offline dave bev

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2005, 06:15:58 PM »
using something you brought with you to find your way out is nothing new, whatever activity you undertake. however what you do use is based very much on the practicality and effectiveness of previous use/experience. i am not a fan of string or hose (and would never advocate anyone attching themselves to hose!)  but until something else exists is there any alternative - i actually think there is. if you cant get out, dont go in!

dave bev

Offline Billy

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2005, 07:02:20 PM »
I once was witness to an exercise where 4 hosereels went in the same door and one then retreated due to a supposed problem with a BA set.
I think we all know what the outcome was?

Use hose to get back to an exit by all means but remember, it will be pulled out from the corners and you will not have walked on that area before so use proper safety procedures at all times.

As for searching a building with a hose reel- I feel a rant coming on so I will quickly sign off!!!!!!

Offline crashball75

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2005, 09:17:12 AM »
Well all these concerns are ones I agree with and whilst I would be happy even as you said trying to trace the hose back...clipping on just seemed ridiculous but I was wondering if I had missed something....

espesacially when I possibly add that there was no reason not to come away from the walls to exit as we went in on a right hand search so it was to me simply a case of exiting on a left hand and we would get out safely.....

as for the four hose reels in the one door...... well I learnt three technical terms for this on my BA training which I always liked the sound of which would mprobably sum up the scene....

1) bunch of b*****ds
2) bag of b*****ks
and my particular favourite
3) the cake and arse party

Offline Lee999

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2005, 01:55:20 PM »
Hi crashball,

Who has instructed you to clip onto a H/R?

Offline Paul

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2005, 03:21:31 PM »
thats what I'd like to know??

Offline Lee999

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2005, 02:29:49 PM »
Crashball,

I will be amazed if you are a member of a British public FRS, and have been given the instruction you describe.
If you are, and have, then it needs to be investigated now. Please give more details.

Lee

Offline Andy Cole

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2005, 08:16:14 PM »
I thought whenever you are in a building involved in fire you should always keep a firefighting medium (i.e. HRJ) with you at all times!, I have heard of tracing the hose back to find the way out so long as you use the proper safety procedures (even if you have already walked across before it may have changed/developed by the time you want to come back!).
I only did my BA training about 10 months ago and they stressed the importance of having a firefighting medium with you all the time (at least one per team) and they never mentioned anything about clipping yopur personal line onto the hose.... doesn't sound like a very good idea though!

Offline Paul

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2005, 08:27:06 PM »
In all my born Life I have never heard of attaching yourself to a hose.

What county do you serve Crashball???  Because if they have taught you this then I would love to know what else they teach.

velly Intellesting

Offline crashball75

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2005, 11:14:04 AM »
well I know people are keen for me to name names but as far as I am aware it is not a county wide thing.

lets just say I had a discussion with my Sub and I definately was told that as a matter of safety you should aways exit with the branch so that you have firefighting medium at all times and also you should never clip on to anything that is not attached to the wall such as a properly laid guide line.

so I can comfort you all by saying its not a county policy its more a local issue.... I have left it at the point where I informed my sub I would never do that and he said he would loook into it for clarification

I guess the reason I raised it is that I was pretty confident it was wrong ...but being so new I didn't want to push it too far...my sub was going to clarify but to date he hasn't got back to me.....

Offline fireftrm

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2005, 12:33:20 PM »
I have read these posts and am slightly confused about the 'clipping on to the HR' - this seems to have been a misinterpretation issue - everyone read back through them and see if I am missing something PLEASE!

Crashy said -  "using the hose reel as a guide line" - not as a guideline and this is where the confusion started? He also added 'even worse the personal line' where diod that come from , surely not because he was told that following the hose was a suitable means to guide you out? As Andy says "I have heard of tracing the hose back to find the way out so long as you use the proper safety procedures ", I rather think this was what was meant when Crashy was given the suggestion, by whoever it was. This is a perfectly sensible idea and does not negate taking that same hosereel with you, that is unless you can think of a way of following it while carrying it that would mean you couldn't do so?! Seems to me that you turn round and follwo that bit that does tend to be lying on the floor, it will follow you out, but is trhat a problem,  other than to crews going in who would not have it to trace?  

Crahsy did you actually think this meant to clip to it? If so I am of the opinion that you maybe misunderstood. I would be seriously concerned if you had been taught that, I am sure that no one had taught you that - unless they too fallen foul of chinese whispers.

I am glad to hear it is not a policy and I am fairly confidetn that if you ask you may find you have been misreading the intention, did you not come up with the personal line thing yourself?

One thing you can be assured of is that the hosereel/hose will lead to the door you took it through, more likely that it would survive a fire  than string too. Watch out for the semantics - I say a hose can be used a s a guide line to guide you out does not mean a guideline, which is a piece of string.
My posts reflect my personal views and beliefs and not those of my employer. If I offend anyone it is usually unintentional, please be kind. If it is intentional I guess it will be clear!

Offline Billy

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2005, 02:52:47 PM »
Fireftrm

I have been confused by your posts on this topic and have noticed that at every turn you have dismissed guidelines- even to the extent of saying that you can use a hose reel as a guide line to guide you out, but not use a guideline which is a piece of string.
You then state that
"a hose/reel would more likely survive a fire than string too".

the main questions on this are:

1. The first thing I was taught when wearing BA is never pass fire and always make sure you have an exit, so how would this situation arise where the fire could burn the hose/reel or the guideline?

2. if there is a raging inferno blocking the way you came in- are you really concerned whether it burnt through the hose or the guideline?


3. The melting temperature of the new guideline is over 300 degrees celsius-
 What is the melting temperature of  (a)  Hose?
                                                     (b) Firefighters?

4. If someone came up with a guideline that was full of water, would you be happier ?

Just curious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Lee999

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2005, 03:10:22 PM »
Billy

Although i really do admire your detemination, you are never going to convince the majority of ops ff's that g/l's are safe.

What do they do in other countrys?

Can sectorisation deplete the need for g/l's?

Can risk assessing your station ground, and producing pre-fire plans for large buildings help?

I think you are flogging a dead shire horse

Offline Billy

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BA Seacrh procedure with Hose reel
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2005, 03:24:02 PM »
Lee 999

I totally agree with most of your points, especially the convincing the majority of ops that guidelines are safe, as they most definately are not safe the way we use them just now!!

But if you tried the suggested procedures and they worked, would you use them?