Woman, 98, told to remove flowers for 'fire safety' reasons

[Tom W]

Housing bosses have been dubbed "killjoys" for banning a 98-year-old lady from having window boxes of flowers outside her flat ? but insist it?s down to fire safety rules.

Plans to destroy the plant collection kept by Jean Stoner outside her first-floor flat in Bangor have been described as ?heartless, cruel and unnecessary? by her outraged son.

Mrs Stoner, who has lived at Craig Menai for several years, has been ordered by housing association Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd to get rid of the plants in the name of fire safety.

Her son, Joe Stoner, has spoken out on behalf of his elderly mother, saying the plants "keep her going" and shouldn't be removed.

A spokeswoman for Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd said: ?We understand Mrs Stoner?s disappointment at having to remove the plants.

"But, as a responsible landlord, we are obliged to make tenants? and residents? safety our priority.

?We have been working closely with the North Wales Fire and Rescue Service over the past year to develop a fire management policy which will help ensure the safety of our tenants and residents.

?It was introduced earlier in the year and has been approved by our Tenants and Residents Partnership.

"The policy, which has also been approved and commended by the Fire Service, includes keeping all communal areas clear of any obstruction should residents need to be evacuated in the event of a fire.

"We can?t make any exceptions to this.

?The Fire and Rescue Service?s Fire Safety Compliance Officer inspected many of our properties recently, including Craig Menai. They praised the arrangements we have in place.?

Good grief  

[William 29]

Stay put policy......managed use of common areas.............ignition sources???...........common sense enforcement policy???.......etc 

[Auntie LIn]

Are these plastic flowers?   Or is the lady growing man-eating daffodils?   Are the residents to assume that on the shout of FIRE the plants will leap off their tables and block escape routes in their rush to get out?

You might hope that the LA might spend their money more effectively by sending their jobsworths on fire safety training and then we might have less wedged doors, disabled closers etc

[kurnal]

Damned if you do and damned if you dont.

Doormats and plant pots, motorcycles and tumble driers, wheely bins, sofas, petrol tins and paper recycling banks - I have seen them all in communal areas of flats.

The only thing I know is that the inch of one persons doormat is the mile of someone elses motorbike.  

Whilst it is a great idea to have a set of rules of what is acceptable and what is not. I have seen many very competent and caring housing scheme managers driven to distraction trying to enforce such rules. On the other hand zero tolerance is easy to understand, easy to enforce and always safe for everybody. And when someone steps over the line you can take immediate action.
If on the other hand you have a set of rules and someone steps over the line you then have to inform, educate, give them time to comply and notice of removal when they dont. It takes forever and you then have to provide storage on site to keep such  items pending agreement.

[lingmoor]

yep damned if you do and all that...we all know what generally happens when you allow one...

the "well they are putting things on the escape route, then  so will I" mentality comes to the fore.

The other thing is what I call creep...put one thing in an escape corridor/route and another thing will apear alongside it, til this is the dumping ground for all manner of stuff

difficult when its an old lady with flowers though init 

[Golden]

Its difficult to manage - but then the RP has to decide whether they want to be brave and manage or take the easy route of zero tolerance. I'm in favour of managing but then also take into account the other circumstances such as whether there is any security on the doors, deck access, general condition of the block and the type of residents - I have been known to completely ignore the rules in a small conversion with only two flats as I didn't have the heart to tell the elderly residents to clear the hallway - sometimes its better to live with a bit of quality of life and accept the risk!!

Its never easy - in this situation did anyone try and talk to the old lady and get rid of the plastic tablecloth and any other easily ignitable items?

Take a look at the block on Google streetview to maybe put this into perspective - its not exactly high rise or high risk!!

[Clevelandfire 3]

If they were all plastic flowers I could understand it but if theyre all real flowers I wouldnt have much of an issue. i accept you allow flowers the next day someone will probably whack a fridge in the communal areas.

[nearlythere]

I trust the escape routes at Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd are maintained sterile. Not a soft chair or coffee table full of leaflets in sight.

[William 29]

Zero tolerance is actually harder to manage and implement and in my experience causes housing associations more problems than it solves. Residents complain they cant have a door mat etc. this gets in the local press and responses then have to be made to residents and other interested parties.

A common sense approach to the common areas is the most appropriate solution (in my view).

[Owain]

I trust the escape routes at Cartrefi Cymunedol Gwynedd are maintained sterile. Not a soft chair or coffee table full of leaflets in sight.

... and appropriately and bilingually signed.

I've seen Victorian workhouses with more appealing architecture, I can't blame the old dear for trying to brighten it up a bit, even if turning the commonal landing into a potting shed is taking it a bit far.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Talk about a rock and a hard place for housing assocs. lots of tenants and politicians pretend to be experts on fire safety bemoaning the elf n safety gone mad culture til theres a fire and someone gets hurt. those same people then question how a fire could have occurred and what an outrage it is and that heads must roll and so forth. yet those same people dont understand that managing fire precautions is a dynamic individual thing depending on the occupancy and condition of the block. you either have a blanket zero tolerance in yer communal areas or you assess each block individually. trouble is when you do that you always get some character moaning that he cant have stuff in the communal areas of his flat when mrs mop down the road in the nice block is allowed pretty flowers n pictures of her pug.

[kurnal]

That's exactly it C3 .  Where there is a regular preferably on site scheme manager or warden then a carefully managed flexible policy is ideal and cements a good relationship. But most housing associations have roving managers trying to run dozens of schemes and worst still no designated scheme manager operating on a pool basis. I blame the working time directive. The live in concierge or warden was a great thing and they made a huge contribution to the welfare and safety of tenants. 

[riless180]

Did that flowering monstrosity just spring up over night?? Me thinks not!!
Its easy to manage if you only have a few properties to manage.
I work for an Almo with 23000+ stock and zero tolerance is the only viable option. Tenants can do pretty much what they like (within reason) inside thier home so there is no need to encroach into the communal area. The terms dammed if you do and dammed if you dont really sums it up but I would rather take a few moans and educate the few than have a serious incident to deal with. :-)

[Dinnertime Dave]

Fell foul of this once. Asked by the local housing association to give a talk to residents, they failed to tell me about the bear trap I was about to enter. Door mats and residents pictures on the wall had all been banned. First question can I have a door mat, second question can I have my framed jigsaw puzzle on the wall. Yes to both was my answer.

Anyway I made the front page of the local rag on the following Thursday and put relationships with the housing association back 5 years. Live and learn. Forget professional judgement - Zero tolerance is the future!!

[lyledunn]

I think that our local sheltered accommodation has got it just right. Rather than a simple zero tolerance policy, they manage safety with care and flexibility. When a resident has reached the age of 117 then the resident may keep, flower arrangements and not more than three ferret cages in the communal areas that may be used in an emergency. Once a resident reaches 125 they may keep a host of things including not more than 100 litres of petrol. However, with respect to the latter, the home does insist that a petroleum licence is issued by the local council.