ADC's

[peanut]

My FA has just sent out job application forms to people who have passed an ADC.  Fair enough you might say, but on the application form it states that success in the ADC is only desirable and not essential.  So, I asked for a form (I failed the ADC) but got told that forms are only being sent to those that passed the ADC!

Surely if the job only requires passing an ADC to be desirable, then applications should be invited from all, incluiding those that have not passed?

[b217bravo]

Excuse my ignorance but what is an ADC?
geoff

[dave bev]

peanut - best ask the hub at college who seem to be carving out a place for themselves for 'ever' - pretty good for what was supposed to be over in october (if i remember correctly).

adc's are assessment and development centres (for geoff) where an individual can be assessed for suitability of promotion and then a development programme can be put together to assist in the areas deemed necessary. after succesful completion there is supposed to then be a 'selection' process - truth is most assesment centres are actually also the selection part of the process

back to peanut, the principle is that no-one fails an adc, but there are some who are suitable for development (to be paid for and provided by the authority) and those who are deemed to require further development that the authority are willing to identify but not provide (simplistic description) - if i was you i would be asking for a development programme or for the authority to identify your development needs so that you can undertake personal development yourself.

adc's are based on good principles - turning that into good practice may not be as easy as first appeared (to some!) and in honesty will it actually be any better or fairer than previous 'promotion' methods - although i'm pretty sure its a lot more expensive - true progress!

dave bev

[peanut]

Thanks Dave, but I'm not sure you've realised the point I'm trying to make.

I am obviously bitter for being unsuccesful in the ADC and am making tracks to improve my performance next time, but my specific gripe with this post is this:

If an application form for a specific vacancy clearly states that success at an ADC is only desirable  (as opposed to essential) then surely applications should be accepted from those who have not been successful at an ADC.

However, this FA will not send out applications to people who have been unsuccesful at an ADC.  The only reason I know about the vacancy and the requirements on the application form is that I know someone who has passed the ADC and therefore has been invited to apply.

Without meaning to labour the point, if the FA makes ADC success an essential requirement then fair enough, but all the time it is only desirable how can the FA discriminate against those who don't have an ADC success under their belts?

This of course would apply to other desirable aspects, not just ADC success.

[dave bev]

unfortunately i think i do understand your point. what i am trying to highlight is that the process of an adc actually allows this to happen. the point im trying to make is that the adc and selection for post are NOT the same thing although brigades are using them as such. in their 'purest form' adc's are a good thing and will offer benefit, however they are not the 'great hope' for the fire service - oops and rescue - that they have been portrayed as.

ok, your point about being told one thing and then someone doing totally different is not new is it? in reality if you did apply for the selection process would you get an interview for the post. i doubt it. what you seem to have stumbled on is an adc process being 'corrupted' into a selection process - and that should have been made clear at the time. perhaps you need to be asking someone to look at the process, in a large brigade within the m25, a lot of appeals have just been held and those who were told they had not passed the adc did after 'moderation' pass after all, because the process was proven to be flawed. if youre in the fbu ask your rep to speak to officials of the aforementioned large brigade, if circumstances are the same they may be able toi help?

finally, dont be bitter about not passing, unless of course the process was incorrect. some people will always be less succesful than others for a number of reasons, dont dwell on it!

dave bev

[Cut Fire Service Pay]

Once again Im lost! Sorry!

I've not been to an ADC and from what i've heard I think I'll be quite happy to stay a Ff! I passed my Lf exam but thats now been all a waste of time!

[fireftrm]

The LFf exam will count toward part, or full, exemption from the Initial Test of Potential (IToP) which all persons wishing to go for an ADC will have to take, so it wasn't a total waste of time (though the exemption only allows for a 3 year currency)

[Paul]

The next 18 months will be an interesting time.  I guess all the hat swapping and and dissipation of the ranks through the FRS will evolve a happy and stronger unit.  Not to mention the new proposed duty systems and threat of losing beds in some of the counties.

Don't mention regional control rooms!!!  


fun fun fun

As true as I'm riding this bike.

[dave bev]

a certain person from nottingham would certainly think so!

or is it just a coincidence that fred wescott originated from there?

dave bev

[peanut]

Sorry to say that my exams (Lff, Sub and StnO + IFE members) do not count one jot to an ADC .  At least in my FRS.

[fireftrm]

Peanut

Sorry to tell your FRS but :The LFf exam will count toward part, or full, exemption from the Initial Test of Potential (IToP) which all persons wishing to go for an ADC will have to take

This is not any ADC they presently run this is the NATIONAL one that starts next year, which they will be using at some point. So ask the question, through your rep body!

[docfin]

I just did the first part of our ADC and I have to say that as far as I can see the idea is that no one cares what it is that you can do as long as you can memorise the PQAs.
I give an example of what I mean thus...
Ff A sees a need for a mosque in his village. He goes out and builds one and recounts the building process as his answer to the diversity question. If he does not remember the PQAs he will not pass, no matter how worthy his gesture was.
Ff B sees A doing the work on the mosque and recounts what he saw remembering to quote the buzz words in the PQAs.
He will pass the ADC.
Q1. Which one deserves to get on.
Q2. Shouldnt someone look into the quality of the candidate rather than their facility to remember buzz words, I thought we were getting away from feats of memory as a means of career progression.

[Billy]

docfin

Sounds like you have issues with your ADC, but I can assure you that in my FRS trying to quote the PQA would get you no marks whatsoever, but gives the assessors a good laugh!

The candidates must demonstrate that they possess these personal qualities and attributes to the standard required, because if they are just trying to "play the game" and in the highly unlikely event they are successful, the only consolation is that we all know they will get found out good and proper if they are promoted.

[docfin]

Billy, I do have some issues but on the whole I dont think the system is too bad if it is properly run.
Unfortunately it has already run into credibility problems in my brigade due to "alleged" unfair practices.
Perhaps an element of proof would stop people from concocting fictional answers.
On the plus side some of the women recruited as a result of the last ADC are loverly.
Sorry but I think I just failed the diversion question (again).
PS as an ex pat jock do I count as a minority?

[Billy]

docfin

As a jock, you may count as a minority if you are in England, but look on the positive side, you should score high on diversity as I think it is admirable that you are carrying out missionary work in a less fortunate Country than yours!!!!