Access to assembly point

[lyledunn]

A local club has difficulty meeting the requirements of its entertainment licence in that council are insisting that there is no impediment to reaching the designated assembly point which is in the street behind a large wooden gate which has a small gate within it. The gate is about 40m distant from the club and numbers are less than 120 max. The fire risk assessor drew attention to it and said that it would be preferable if some kind of EOD was fitted but he put a low priority on it, presumably because the gate was at a safe distance. Council only picked it up because the assessor mentioned it in the first place. Leaving the gate open is not an option and one would see difficulty in trying to squeeze 120 drunks and maybe one or two disabled chaps through the man-gate. The gates do open inwards on release of shoot bolts but I suppose doing that in a crush, in the dark and under the influence might be a tall order.

[Paul2886]

This always amuses me regarding clubs and village halls that people think that people are dutifully going to make their way to an assembly point. Of course if they were to who brings the register along to ensure nobody is missing. If there was a fire just make sure they can all get out cos when they do they will just disperse into the night and generally get in the way of fire crews with their mobiles in video mode. Cynical all so and so aren't I

[lyledunn]

Actually Paul, I do not see you as cynical, merely realistic. As you say there is no chance of people dutifully hanging around to have their name checked but I guess that you have to stick as best you possibly can with accepted procedure. Risk here is low and the assessor acknowledges that but council requirements usurp the risk assessment.

[kurnal]

The location of an assembly point is academic, as you both point out there is no management or control once they have walked out the door, nobody knows who is there so a roll call is pointless. Most will hang around for a few minutes to see if there is anything to watch or any chance of returning and if not they will go their own way. The key question is whether the external routes can take the flow of people out of the building whilst they play the first two verses of  God Save the Queen without putting people in danger, eg from traffic  rather than where they are intended to assemble.  For licenced premises if all customers can safely leave the building and move a safe distance away to disperse then that is all that can be required in my view.

[Paul2886]

I totally agree Kurnal. Such a wise head on young shoulders

[Golden]

Lyle just one question - is this gate in an enclosed yard maybe from a rear exit? If so it will need to be available but a EOD is excessive - an (emergency) light fitting would be more appropriate to enable the shoot bolts to be released. Elf & safety gone mad!

On the subject of assembly points for public buildings its always amused me - the only people that will hang around are those that have an attachment to the place such as they've left a coat/bag inside -or in some cases a pint that's just been paid for!

[Dinnertime Dave]

Why is it a condition of the entertainment licence?

Fire safety conditions cannot be put on licenses issued under the Licensing Act

[nearlythere]

Why is it a condition of the entertainment licence?

Fire safety conditions cannot be put on licenses issued under the Licensing Act

It's NI conditions DT. The EL is issued under the Local Government Miscellaneous Provision (NI) Order 1984. Fire safety included.

[nearlythere]

Lyle just one question - is this gate in an enclosed yard maybe from a rear exit? If so it will need to be available but a EOD is excessive - an (emergency) light fitting would be more appropriate to enable the shoot bolts to be released. Elf & safety gone mad!

It is also wise that fire risk assessments are undertaken taking in to consideration the whims of the relevant enforcement authorities be it the F&RS or others.

[Golden]

NT we shouldn't have to take 'whims' into account!

[nearlythere]

NT we shouldn't have to take 'whims' into account!

I'm afraid we should G and it would be wrong and unfair on the client not to. Client expects to see joined up enforcement not a bunch of squabbling IOs each with a view, each with their own priorities and, indeed in some cases, each with their own code of practice. Doesn't make us look very professional and while IOs are jumping up and down squeaming and squeaming and squeaming at each other the client has to sit it out until they get tired.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Why is it a condition of the entertainment licence?

Fire safety conditions cannot be put on licenses issued under the Licensing Act

It's NI conditions DT. The EL is issued under the Local Government Miscellaneous Provision (NI) Order 1984. Fire safety included.

Point taken - back in my box 

[Mike Buckley]

I agree with you NT whether we like it or not we have to take this into consideration. I have come across a case where a hotel had to put in a number opf unnecessary measures enforced by the Licensing Authority based on the comment you need to do these otherwise we will reject your licence and you will have to wait 6 months for the next session. Needless to say this was very shortly before the licensing session and there was no time to argue or appeal.

[Golden]

My point was that we shouldn't have to take the whims into account - I know that we have to but we shouldn't have to.

[nearlythere]

My point was that we shouldn't have to take the whims into account - I know that we have to but we shouldn't have to.

I get you G and you are entirely correct. I have been involved with a client which due to the nature of the undertaking has to answer to 4 enforcement authorities each wanting a fire risk assessment done based on its own guidance and template. One actually wanted a building's first floor closed down as it did not comply with its guidance document but it complied with another's guidance.  Another wanted a FRA template used which was more akin to a builder's snagging list audit.

And sometimes whims change like the wind which makes it even more difficult.

I believe that this nonsense of a situation is being looked at with a view to more consistency between EAs.