Ex purpose built old peoples home now used as hostel

[Mar62]

Dear all, I haven't posted on here for quite some time but I have a question.

Have been asked to carry out a FRA of a premises that used to be a purpose built old peoples home and is now being used as a hostel for a council for people that have lost their home etc. All self contained flats.
All compartmentation seems good except for some cross corridor doors not closing properly, a few holes in electrical cupboard construction where cables pass through etc. Floors and ceilings all concrete. The doors are all pre smoke seal era and all the doorstops are 25mm. The flat entrance doors are of the same era (no smoke seals, 25mm doorstops) they all have letterboxes at approximately mid height and self closing devices (some inside, some outside). An old fire alarm system is in place in the common areas and is due to be replaced. There are 2 levels (ground and first) and 3 protected staircases and travel distances seem to be acceptable. The premises is only on a 5 year lease of which 2 years are already gone. The site has a couple of staff around for part of the daytime but not evenings or 24/7 so in effect it will not be a managed site and will be almost like a block of flats. Evacuation or stay put. I am edging towards stay put...

My question is this: Would it be deemed acceptable to class this as a purpose built block of flats as it was purpose built originally as an old peoples home. Would it then be acceptable (as in purpose built flats) to remove the common areas alarm system completely and upgrade the flat entrance doors to current certified fire doors with no letterboxes.

Please discuss!

[nearlythere]

Dear all, I haven't posted on here for quite some time but I have a question.

Have been asked to carry out a FRA of a premises that used to be a purpose built old peoples home and is now being used as a hostel for a council for people that have lost their home etc. All self contained flats.
All compartmentation seems good except for some cross corridor doors not closing properly, a few holes in electrical cupboard construction where cables pass through etc. Floors and ceilings all concrete. The doors are all pre smoke seal era and all the doorstops are 25mm. The flat entrance doors are of the same era (no smoke seals, 25mm doorstops) they all have letterboxes at approximately mid height and self closing devices (some inside, some outside). An old fire alarm system is in place in the common areas and is due to be replaced. There are 2 levels (ground and first) and 3 protected staircases and travel distances seem to be acceptable. The premises is only on a 5 year lease of which 2 years are already gone. The site has a couple of staff around for part of the daytime but not evenings or 24/7 so in effect it will not be a managed site and will be almost like a block of flats. Evacuation or stay put. I am edging towards stay put...

My question is this: Would it be deemed acceptable to class this as a purpose built block of flats as it was purpose built originally as an old peoples home. Would it then be acceptable (as in purpose built flats) to remove the common areas alarm system completely and upgrade the flat entrance doors to current certified fire doors with no letterboxes.

Please discuss!

Is the compartmentation such that each flat will be enclosed in concrete other than a fire door?

[Mar62]

Hi thanks for the reply. Yes, all concrete floors and ceilings. Ive been in three of the flats and everything seems ok as far as I can ascertain. There are no shared kitchen extraction ducts or anything like that. Purely 4 brick walls and concrete floor and ceiling. I cannot see any reason why a fire wouldn't remain in the flat of its origin (except for the front doors) which is what i want to specify to change to be able to meet stay put policy. I just cannot see that everyone will respond to a fire alarm.

[Mike Buckley]

You can get fire doors with letter boxes fitted, provided the proper letter box is used intumescent seals, smoke seals etc. All tested to BS.

[Mar62]

Hi Mike, yes fully aware of them, but thanks. The current doors are pre smoke seal era so none fitted but have 25mm doorstops. So if we were to meet the requirements for a stay put policy the doors should be upgraded to FD30s doors? Am I right or wrong? On reflection today, some of the doors do have some slight damage to them (where the door closers are fixed) and I am now not convinced that the doors (at present) would support a stay put. Was thinking that it would be best just to forget the letterboxes and go for postal delivery to a communal location.

[Owain]

Was thinking that it would be best just to forget the letterboxes and go for postal delivery to a communal location.

Delivery to a locked communal box can be useful for hostels anyway as there may be a frequent turnover of residents, and having a member of staff receive and distribute the post to the inmates can help stop identity theft / benefit fraud / mail order delivery of drugs / etc.

[Fishy]

Hi Mike, yes fully aware of them, but thanks. The current doors are pre smoke seal era so none fitted but have 25mm doorstops. So if we were to meet the requirements for a stay put policy the doors should be upgraded to FD30s doors? Am I right or wrong? On reflection today, some of the doors do have some slight damage to them (where the door closers are fixed) and I am now not convinced that the doors (at present) would support a stay put. Was thinking that it would be best just to forget the letterboxes and go for postal delivery to a communal location.

Just FYI, size of the door stop (25mm, 12mm or whatever) makes no difference to its fire resistance (see BS 8214 for more details)

[Mar62]

Hi, thanks for the replies. Yes i realise about the 25mm stops not adding to the actual fire resistance etc. Just trying to give a clearer picture of things. All resolved now. Not going down stay put policy as have been told other factors that I wasn't told before
 so going for full alarm system and evac.

Thanks all.