Fire Alarm Replacement Requiring BC Approval???

[Messy]

I have advised that a fire detection system needs to be modified as a matter of urgency. I believe that the person responsible for making the change is stalling as he keeps coming up with various reasons why it cant be done immediately. The latest is that Building Control needs to be informed of the change, so a detailed spec and plans will need to be submitted.

To be fair, this is a very large fire detection system with many peripheries and a complex cause & effect program. Indeed, the building is huge and the evacuation plan which needs to be supported by the fire alarm system is complicated. I have never heard of a refit of an automatic fire detection system requiring building control approval - but I am no planning expert .

Google is not my friend on this question as my searches simply point me to loads of borough building control websites

So is he right? or am I being given duff info?  I don't really want to challenge him in case I am wrong!!  Can anyone help???

[kurnal]

I assume this building is in England.
The first point of call is Regulation 3- would the proposed change  fall under the definition of building work- it might as this definition includes "the material alteration of a controlled service or fitting".

A material alteration occurs if the proposed  change would lead to a non compliance with B1, or if it never complied, leaves the building less compliant than it was before. Material alterations would require an application to be made.

Functional requirement B1 includes provision for the early warning of fire.

I wager you have found flaws in the design and are proposing changes to improve fire safety so therefore making the building more compliant than it was before. Therefore no application required. But first you need to have regard to the original fire strategy document approved by the BCO as there may be elements of the alarm system that were provided in compensation for shortcomings in other areas.

So the answer is no you don't need BCO approval if you are making it better but many in your position would still apply to cover their own liability and ensure a second level of supervision over the works.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Not a definitive answer but I look at hundreds of BR consultations each year. I have been as FSO for over 10 years. Never had one submitted just for a new fire warning system.

[Messy]

I assume this building is in England.

I wager you have found flaws in the design and are proposing changes to improve fire safety so therefore making the building more compliant than it was before.

Yes, it is is England

Kurnal, you half win your wager! Its not specifically flaws in the design of any infrastructure I am highlighting, but due to significant changes in the building and a vastly increased occupancy, the cause and effect spec is no longer viable to cope with the increased numbers. Specifically the AFD system interacts with a VAS to create a phased evacuation and its the details of this strategy that is no longer suitable (IMO) (hope that makes sense!).

To achieve the change, the VAS system needs to be replaced and its this renewal that I have been advised needs BC approval??? Not so sure myself!!

[kurnal]

Hi messy
The changes you describe are do not sound as though they are covered by the defining of building work ( but check against the definition of a material change of use) so therefore it appears to me to be a matter solely the province of the fire safety order or any applicable licensing legislation.

[wee brian]

It probably is controlled work. But most Local Authorities don't insist on an application.

[Fishy]

It probably is controlled work. But most Local Authorities don't insist on an application.

I must admit that on the odd occasion I've considered this I've come to the same conclusion - alteration to a controlled service or fitting.  Can't see any reason why electrical work should be covered under Part P but not work on a fire alarm.  Having said this I'm pretty sure few (if any) make a BC application for such works, though.  Would be interesting to hear from any BCOs that might be lurking on the forum?

[wee brian]

A fire alarm isn't "a controlled service or fitting". But it is a service that's controlled
I used to be a BCO. But I feel better now.