RRO and the Housing act

[Ken Taylor]

So why can't we have a new 'Guide to Fire Safety in HMOs'? They seem to be quick enough at working on other RRO-related guides.

I remember the days when EHOs (or were they PHIs then?) went round telling owners to screw asbestos-containing sheets to doors - shortly before they went round telling them to remove them.

[val]

North West Region has just published their own...way ahead of the ODPM. You can get one through Trafford Council, which leads the local group, if you want. It follows 12/92 mostly but with nod towards FRA.
If you still think single s/c, upward escape across roofs and six storey HMO's are OK in 2005 then stick to this one.
I'll be using the RRO to try and bring these up to scratch and not just doing the usual hand wringing and saying they are existing, what can we do? We don't want to put anyone out of business.

[wee brian]

Excellent lets all have our own guides. Pehaps rather than just regional guides we could all have our own personal guides.

That should clear up any confusion.....

[Gel]

What is situation in Wales;I believe [like Scotland] they act nationally in this area??

[val]

Thanks Wee B.
As there was no national guidance the NW has, fairly successfully, been using their own locally agreed guide for ten years. The new guide is an updated version.
We could, of course, caried on waiting for London to produce one...that would put us naughty northeners in our place! As I'm sure Colin would agree, there is both life and grey matter outside of the South East.

[wee brian]

Don't confuse "London" with the South East. London is a place full of people from all over the place (lots of Scots for some reason?). It's not an excuse just a fact. I agree that the powers that Be have been sitting on their hands for far too long on some of these issues.

Do you think adopting a policy of putting people out of business is a good idea in the NW?

[val]

No, but I believe bad landlords shouldn't undercut good ones by running unsafe HMO's. Gaining financial avantage by failing to comply with the law has always been a factor that needs to be considered in any enforcement action.

[PhilB]

I think anyone with a knowledge of 12/92 will agree it is a poor guide. It is basically a cut and paste of the Hotel guide together with special scary single stair rules.

As a result of lack of new guidance despite many promises many brigades have produced their own guidance e.g GMC, Kent, Wales to name but a few.

This can only lead to inconsistency of enforcement and one would have hoped for new guidance for these premises particulary with the impending problem of dual legislation.

One guide covering all sleeping risks will I believe be inadequate.

[Big A]

Here at the hub we have been looking at HHSRS scores and come to the conclusion that a serious fire hazard would not attract a high enough score to warrant mandatory action by the Housing Authority due to the extremely low likelihood rating.

[Big A]

How does the panel feel about the interraction between Articles 42 and 43 of RRO (licensed premises) and Part II of the Housing Act 2004 (Licensing of HMOs)?
Would there be any point making a representation if the council can't refuse a licence as Parts 1 (HHRSR) and 2 of the Housing Act are 'decoupled' ?
Does Article 43 really mean that no licensing authority can impose FS conditions on a licence? We think it does but some councils claim they have had 'informal advice'  from ODPM that it doesn't mean that. If so, what does it mean?

[dave bev]

here at what hub?

dave bev

[PhilB]

I don't think they intended article 42 to apply to HMOs but clearly it does. The wording 'to make representations' comes from new Licensing Act.

If the FRS make representations and the housing authority still choose to issue a license regardles they will be on dodgy ground if something goes wrong. I would recommend FRS keep a copy on file of all their representations that are ignored!

As for article 43, the order does not apply to domestic premises but common parts of HMOs are covered. RRO would take precedence over housing act in these areas I believe. Nothing will prevent licensing authority from imposing FS conditions in HMOs.

[Big A]

Indeed, the bit about making representation is a relatively new addition and ,presumably, the intention is to create a parallel with the new Licensing Act. How we are to do that is not stated and, as there is no mention of consultation (for licensing purposes) in the Housing Act, LHAs are equally unsure.

It has come as a surprise to some of our councils that there is a need to consult although many have been routinely for several years as part of their registration schemes. Those that have registration schemes are not particularly worried about the new requirements (although they are still awaiting their regulations) but those who don't are mildly panicked (if that's not a paradox) by the prospect of receiving thousands of applications from 'unknown' premises.

[PhilB]

Yes and the potential workloads for FRS is frightening, especially when some brigades are drastically reducing the number of inspectors and the training provided.

[Big A]

Yes and the potential workloads for FRS is frightening, especially when some brigades are drastically reducing the number of inspectors and the training provided.

I think the extra workload will depend on how pro-active we want to be. Certainly, if FRSs are planning to inspect every HMO in their area, regardless of whether or not the LHA has recently inspected, it will be.