Author Topic: Grenfell Tower  (Read 32752 times)

Offline Fishy

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Grenfell Tower
« on: June 14, 2017, 07:30:23 AM »
Woke up to the terrible news about the tower block fire in West London.  Pretty shocked to see the pictures of so many floors all alight at the same time.  Websites seem to suggest that it was very recently refurbished using an Aluminium Composite Panelling (ACP) rain screen cladding... http://www.harleyfacades.co.uk/page/grenfell-tower

If so, it does echo some of the incidents we've seen in the Middle and Far East where combustible cladding systems have caused rapid vertical fire spread?

Whatever the cause, here's hoping that everyone was evacuated safely, & that all the fire-fighters are safe and well.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 07:33:31 AM by Fishy »

Offline Owain

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2017, 08:25:17 AM »
"A number of fatalities" has been confirmed.

The local Grenfell Action Group had claimed, before and during the refurbishment, the block constituted a fire risk and residents had warned that access to the site for emergency vehicles was "severely restricted". and link to
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

Three hours after the fire started, police said people were continuing to be evacuated from the tower.

Eyewitnesses said they saw lights - thought to be mobile phones or torches - flashing at the top of the block of flats, and trapped residents coming to their windows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40269625




Offline Fishy

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2017, 09:09:00 AM »
Yes, Dany Cotton has confirmed there are an as yet unknown number of fatalities.  My thoughts go out to their families and loved ones...

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2017, 11:11:20 AM »
Thoughts and prayers to those affected by this dreadful incident. One can only look at the news and think about the plight of those trapped in the building and the courage and bravado of the firefighters and other residents doing what they can to rescue who they can.

There will be many stories of heroism from this tragedy.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Dinnertime Dave

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Offline Tom Sutton

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2017, 03:23:17 PM »
"Fire Risks From External Cladding Panels - A Perspective From The UK" is about sandwich panels, which I would think Aluminium Composite Panelling falls within that description.

Check out http://www.probyn-miers.com/perspective/2016/02/fire-risks-from-external-cladding-panels-perspective-from-the-uk/
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.


Offline PGtips

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2017, 06:14:56 PM »
Thoughts and prayers to everybody affected. Sad, sad, day.

Offline longjohn

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2017, 10:48:36 PM »
Likewise, thoughts are with all of those effected. Just so hard to believe in 2017, some of us are old enough to remember showing the training video 'Fire and Smoke give yourself a chance' the scenes today are reminiscent of the San Paulo fire on that old video. 40 years later? beggars belief! so sad

Offline Owain

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 12:00:00 AM »
In January, "552 firefighter jobs and 14 engines are also being cut from the capital's brigade after seven London boroughs failed last year to legally challenge the closures."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/firefighters-cry-as-10-london-stations-including-clerkenwell-close-due-to-cuts-9050079.html

Also there have been concerns over (imported Chinese?) cladding failing tests

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/fears-grow-as-apartment-cladding-debacle-ignites/news-story/22bf66af43cd0c52c91063d8b4b34535

Cheaply imported aluminium cladding from Melbourne?s fire-damaged Lacrosse tower was so flammable CSIRO scientists had to abandon combustibility tests after only 93 seconds to avoid damaging their equipment.

A CSIRO report obtained by The Australian reveals that the sub-standard Alucobest cladding ? suspected of also having been used in thousands of buildings nationwide and linked with fires in large buildings around the world ? sustained extensive ?flaming? after 55 seconds and had to be extinguished after 93 seconds because of ?excessive flaming and smoking?.

An MFB incident report into the November Lacrosse fire also reveals there have been seven high-rise apartment fires around the world directly attributed to the unsafe cladding with plastic cores, with more than seven deaths. Four high-rise towers in Dubai including The Torch ? all with aluminium cladding with the plastic core ? have suffered extensive damage from fires spreading up the facade of the buildings.

In France, seven people died in an 18-storey apartment complex in Roubaix, clad in similar aluminium facade as that used at the Lacrosse Tower.

In South Korea, a rapidly spreading fire in a 42-storey fire high-rise apartment complex was directly attributed again to the same sort of cladding used at Lacrosse as was a fire in a 41-storey building in Atlanta City in the US.

Of those international fires, the MFB reports say: ?What is evident is the rapid and extensive vertical fire spread up and down the buildings in direct correlation with the fire (at the Lacrosse tower). Whilst the brand and make of the panels are not identified in the report, they would all appear to be of very similar material and construction to the material installed in the facade at the (Lacrosse building).?

He said there was a growing problem of builders substituting quality products at the last moment for cheaper, dangerous, imported products to increase profits.

He also warned about companies in China selling building products such as cladding with questionable quality control and compliance certificates.

... only an invasive test can determine the difference between non-compliant cladding with a plastic core and the compliant cladding with a fibre core. Otherwise they look, feel and smell exactly the same.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 08:13:52 AM »
I do wish the shed load of experts being paraded on the TV would reflect on what they are pontificating and just keep their opinions on this incident to themselves. The confusion being created with everyone seeming to have a different view on what residents should do in the event of a fire and the level of fire safety measures that should have been in the building.

They will have an opportunity at a later date to air such views at the Public Inquiry.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Dinnertime Dave

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2017, 10:22:57 AM »
Agree.

I listened to Radio 5 yesterday, they were requesting firefighters and retired firefighters to ring in and give their expert opinion.

Whilst people on here will have their theories, we should wait for the facts to be established. Speculation doesn't help the families of those missing, injured or dead.

Offline Fishy

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2017, 11:49:06 AM »
Absolutely agree with both the above - therefore as the original poster can I suggest that (as a mark of respect to the bereaved) we voluntarily close down this thread & don't use it to speculate any more on what will eventually emerge as the facts of this awful incident?

Offline Owain

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2017, 02:52:52 PM »
Although I agree that uninformed speculation may be unhelpful, there have already been some supplier/contractor websites closed down or amended which has been remarked upon in some fora and then picked up by the media. Public scrutiny from the outset may help the right questions be asked and prevent a cover-up so that the facts do emerge.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Grenfell Tower
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2017, 07:31:04 PM »
I agree with Owain.

Discussion and speculation can reduce the likelihood of a potential cover-up