Stay Put again.

[colin todd]

Lyle, every time there was an atrocity during the troubles, I assume you did not go into print as to who did it during the PSNI investigation.  However, I do not intend to further engage in the unprofessional messages on some of the postings.  Personally, I think that Colin Simpson ought to lock the two threads on this subject.

[Mike Buckley]

Dave,

Yes it will probably be down to the FRS to knock on doors, and it should be safe enough for the FRS to do this and the people to get out.

It should also be the case that the occupants of other parts of the building should be able to say ' Sod this I want out' and be able to leave the building in safety during the incident.

A Big Red button is a reasonable idea but who will be the responsible person? where will they be? how do you test the system to see if it works? and if it goes off how many people are going to respond to it?

[lyledunn]

I hope the moderator does not lock this thread. Nearlythere was right to raise the stay put issue as people in high rise buildings are desperate to know if the advice given to them by experts is correct or not. Further, many experts that give out such advice will want to be confident that they are in tune with current thinking. That is why the matter needs to be aired, discussed and debated by experts, real or just armchair.
I totally agree that no individual or organisation should be subject to speculation ahead of the outcome of any investigation. However, it is not unreasonable to discuss the technical aspects of this tragedy as they are likely to have far-reaching consequences, including the diminution of the esteem that experts once may have enjoyed.

[colin todd]

Just look at the advice given by experts in these threads and you will see why it should be locked-even a suggestion that lift shafts going through floors are not protected shafts, which I thought people learned on their first day morning in fire safety.  The threads should be locked and that is my last word.

[Demontim]

Can't believe I'm writing this, but for once I'm in full agreement with Colin. Just goes to show there's a first time for everything!!!

[Tom Sutton]

Just look at the advice given by experts in these threads and you will see why it should be locked-even a suggestion that lift shafts going through floors are not protected shafts, which I thought people learned on their first day morning in fire safety.  The threads should be locked and that is my last word.

If you check a few posts later Mike Buckley corrected me which I fully accepted but still with a concern of the spread of cold smoke.

[Fishy]

Grenfell Tower is a fire disaster on a scale not seen in this country in living memory.  The effects on the construction industry may be cataclysmic and fire safety is under the spotlight in the UK as it rarely has been before.  It's recent, it's raw and politically / socially extremely sensitive.

It's likely that more people will lose their careers as a result of it; criminal prosecutions may result and (just perhaps) complete construction industry sectors might be blighted by the fallout from the Fire.  It's probable that some members of this Forum are deeply and personally involved in the aftermath, & will (at the very least) be required to give evidence to the Public Enquiry.

There is no question in my mind that the majority of the Forum members are passionate about fire safety; we are concerned about the fire; we are technically interested in what caused the fire to spread as it did, and we have an almost irresistible urge to discuss it with like-minded people.  We guess, we assume and we speculate (it's human nature).  However, this incident is extraordinary, and the big difference this time (compared to the likes of King's Cross and Bradford City) is the Internet allows us all to express our technical opinions effortlessly sitting in our pyjamas in front of the TV, and they're there for the whole world to find (for ever).

I'm not given to preaching and I'm in absolutely no position of authority to 'demand' that forum members can't post what they like, when they like - so regard this is as a plea... just have a think about the above before posting speculative opinion on the subject, until those in the know give us the facts?  Personally, I think it's too soon for posting any opinions on an internet forum to be prudent, but that's just my opinion (though I realise that by posting this I may have contradicted myself)?

Plenty of other stuff to talk about - just see my fascinating recent post on jamb-mounted concealed door closers...

[AnthonyB]

Whilst a general discussion on matters residential may be of merit I think Grenfell should be left well alone until the true picture is out - as every other day some other allegation comes out and the blame swings from one direction to another.

First there is was all the cladding then the building control process then the fire service PDA then the FRA and 'cover up' allegations and now the police investigation from claims that the fire alarm system installer and maintainer might not have been as diligent as they should be....

This jigsaw is way from complete - let's get on with risk assessing using the current guidance on a case by case basis and see what comes out on the wash.

[FireNet]

Dear Members
This thread has been locked
This is due to a criminal investigation which is now in progress and a public enquiry to be started in the very near future on all aspects of the Greville Tower incident
This action has not been taken lightly as it has always been a sounding board for the Fire Safety industry to share and learn from
However some statements on this tread are airing assumptions as fact and this cannot be left open ended.

I have only had to take this action once before again with a criminal prosecution pending

I am sure that you will understand my action as the owner of this forum

Colin S
FireNet