Forcible entry

[WarrantManz]

Hi , wonder if any of you had experience in doing forcible entry into units on fire thru the glass door. How do the FF gets in? some of these glass doors are so thick that breaking them would be very very hard  and can inflict injuries to the FF. And I am also wondering what is the best forcible entry method into units with roller shutter doors?

[neal pick gmcusar]

glass doors; try for a weaker spot further round the building, working on the theory that a 100 quid double glazed unit is cheaper to replace than a 2000 quid door set. Oh yes and the door sets will be made of either plate or toughened glass which is the devil to break.
roller shutters; Stihl saw for max speed ( assuming you have access to one) or reciprocating saw for for the slick` how did they do that` effect.

[WarrantManz]

Thanks neal for the info. I'm just worried if i am to attend to incident where there are no other access other then the glass doors. Just shatter it, or look for any bolts and nuts to dismantle?In my coumtry there are lots of shooping centre with shops units and also office units constructed like this.

[Chris Houston]

Sorry to be pedantic, but toughened glass is no more robust than normal glass (despite its' name) the difference is that it breaks into tiny bits when broken  - i.e. it's a safety feature.

Laminated glass is more secure as it has a thin layer of plastic which holds it together when broken.

[Paul]

Chris,


You are quite right in that on impact toughened or tempered glass as it is also known, disintegrates into small granular pieces.

However, I do not agree with you saying it is not any stronger than ordinary glass.  Tempered glass is subject to a special heat treatment process to toughen it.

Why would you need to have toughened glass in 1st chamber height glass roofs??  Falling objects, such as loose roof tiles may fall through the roof and cause serious injury or death.  Toughened glass helps to prevent this.

Check out BS 6206, under part 4 I think.

Paul

[Chris Houston]

Presumably as one would rather have lots of tiny bits of glass landing on them than shards.

I don't have access to 6206, but would be keen learn more should I be wrong about this.  Is it significantly stronger?

[WarrantManz]

Thanks a lot ! So what do you guys suggests? Worst case scenario . No other access.Bang the glass ?
And about roller shutters , someone told  me that we can try to punch the shutter keyhole with PRT 6 striker to dislodge it . Anyone tried?

[Chris Houston]

Thanks a lot ! So what do you guys suggests? Worst case scenario . No other access.Bang the glass ?
And about roller shutters , someone told  me that we can try to punch the shutter keyhole with PRT 6 striker to dislodge it . Anyone tried?

I am not expert and not a firefighter, but I suspect a few blows with one of your axes would do the job?

[colin todd]

Christopher, They dont all have axes nowadays. You are showing your age again!

[buffalosid]

Christopher, They dont all have axes nowadays. You are showing your age again!

i would hope that all pumps carry axes though?

[Chris Houston]

Christopher, They dont all have axes nowadays. You are showing your age again!

27!

[notty]

Oooops Colin, never mind if you ask one of the roughy toughy firefighters they might show you round their engine then you'll know EVERYTHING!!!

For what its worth if you attempt to use an axe on a roller shutter door you would regret it (after about an hour of chopping sweating, and getting knowhere!!)

[Chris Houston]

For what its worth if you attempt to use an axe on a roller shutter door you would regret it (after about an hour of chopping sweating, and getting knowhere!!)

My axe suggestion was in reply to the first question, which related to a glass door.

[Pip]

You might need to research this one, as never had to try it, but one method of getting thru roller shutter doors I was told about is to punch a hole(with an axe!!) in the middle of the door just above head height,and then use a powered saw to cut out a 'triangle' shape(ie the 'hole' you made with the axe being the apex).Once the two cuts are complete the slats just fall out and a quick entry can be made.

[Mike Buckley]

Getting through glass doors depends very much on how and where you hit it. Usually a blow sharp point close to the frame will cause the glass to break, a crosshead screwdriver and a hammer should do the trick. If you use a flatish object and hit the centre of the door away from the frame it will just bounce off. Sealed unit double glazing is particularly resistent to a blow in the centre.

The classic scenario is firefighter with axe in a shop entry facing door with plate glass windows on either side swings back axe for a good blow and the corner of the axe shatters the plate glass window.

Subtlety not brute force.