Retro upgrade of panel above fire door

[Suttonfire]

Hi,

I have identified non fire resisting timber panels above notional fire resisting door sets (in what should be fire resisting compartments). My recommendation was to fireproof/replace the panels with approved panels which achieve a minimum of 30 minutes fire resistance.

The client has subsequently fitted 30 minutes fire resisting boards to the back of the original panels. However, another building contractor has since stated fire rated boards should have been fitted either side of the original timber panel so as to afford protection from both sides?

Am i missing something here, or would a properly installed 30 minutes fire resisting board fitted to a single side of the original panel not be adequate to achieve a notional 30 minutes fire resistance (irrespective of which side the partition may be subjected to fire)?

[Tom Sutton]

In my day we would fitted 1/2 inch superlux to the risk side of the door, for instance a fire door opening into a protected route you would fit it to the room side. However nowadays I would thought upgrading a fire doors is a no no, unless absolutely the only solution and a fire door set should be fitted?

[Suttonfire]

It's not the fire door itself - just the panel above the door (where you would typically find a fan light). Thanks

[Fishy]

There are few fire resisting building elements that don't have to be fire-resisting from both directions (floors being the notable exception)  Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as '30 minutes fire resisting boards' - there are 30 minute fire-resisting constructions that use board materials, & whoever designs an upgraded panel ought to be following the details of a tested / classified board system (including all the fixings, sealants etc).  If your panel construction alone has evidence that it can give you the full 30 mins F/R from both directions, it would be safe to assume no contribution to fire resistance from the timber panel so which side it's on is immaterial.

[Phoenix]

I agree with the above.  I would just say that if the failure of the timber board in a fire may cause the fixings or frame of the fire resisting board to lose integrity, then it is not satisfactory.  Alternatively, if the timber board can burn completely away without affecting the integrity of the fixings or frame of the fire resisting board (for the appropriate period of time) then it will probably be ok.


 

[William 29]

Interesting............is the panel part of the door/door set? If so then 30mins may be acceptable. OR is the panel considered part of the flat wall? If so 60mins FR required.

My interpretation would be that the 30mins FR should only be applied to the doors, the walls would be 60.

[Tom Sutton]

My point was, in my day, when we upgraded a door we only protected from the risk side, because they were tested from one side of the door so we only considered the risk side. Nowadays they seem to require a fully tested element of construction which would indicate protection from both sides and I do not understand why.

[Animal]

Firstly where is the door? purpose built flats? hotel offices??

Anyway the first question has been raised; is the window frame part of the door frame, if it is the 'hole' may have been a transom window, if it was then it may of had a piece of Georgian wired glass in it; would you be concerned if you found that in a block of flats? probably not because you have the 30 minutes FR and integrity.

An easy cheap fix when plywood has replaced FR glass is to put Georgian wired glass back in, with the correctly fixed beading, and then put the plywood or a piece of plasterboard/MDF over the glass/beading if privacy/decorating/painting is required.

Given the size of the 'hole' above the door a double layer of plaster board  would be acceptable sealed at the edges mounted within good beading, depending what premises it is located in. If the 'hole' is on the larger size it may need some studwork to provide stability, if so board it both side.

Don't forget we accept notional fire resisting doors, well a fire risk assessor will and maybe not a fire door surveyor.