Protected Routes and Travel Distances

[PhilB]

mmmmmmmmm..good point Collin

[wee brian]

The ususal drill is to measure to the storey exit.

Of course what that means is open to interpretation.

Have I left the storey when

a) My foot is on the first step of the stair

B) Ive walked through the door to the stair

c) I've walked throught the lobby door (assuming there is one)

Sometimes you can stretch your TD by a few metres by adopting C) and having a long lobby.

In reality these distances are all a bit arbitrary (if that's how you spell it) so, don't worry about it too much.

[PhilB]

No Brian ok...that's nicely cleared up then! How do you define storey exit??? The original poster had a good point that Blue Guide can be confusing..well demonstrated by your post!

[colin todd]

Brian, Phillip has missed the point I think that, if there is no lobby because you have open plan accommodation, you stop measuring at the single door to the proteced staircase, as is the case in just about all office buildings ,below the height for lobbying, built for donkeys years. I do hope that this foundation course covers BS 5588, Phillip and also AD B, both of which clearly show the situation I described.Very worrying if someone supposed to teach such a course would not understand these basic codes, bearing in mind that it is these against which buildings have been designed for an awful long time.

[PhilB]

Colin

The post was originally about the Blue Guide...I know ADB differs and 5588..you really do need to attend a good course Collin...but carry on you're demonstrating something to a lot of people what I have been trying to do for a long time xx

[colin todd]

Ah the dear old Blue Guide and its out-dated thinking. Carry on clinging to it in its dying days. By doing so, you are demonstrating something extremely well, as did the blue book. I recall at the time it was written, it being admitted by some of those close to the writing of it when the anomly was pointed out to them, that they had not really taken open plan accommodation into account.

[johndoe]

does TD still count in an building where a fire is impossible to start?
Surely we should be looking at risk at not old guides that have long since served there purpose. that sounds like some FSO I know.

[PhilB]

Yes some of it is outdated but based on Post War Building Studies...some good benchmarks some silly points..all discussed on good training course because, like it or not, many buildings have been certificated using this old guidance. Modern day IOs need to understand the philosophy as do you and WEE Brian so they can assess the safety of premises.

[johndoe]

do you still discuss about horse drawn pumps or steam pumps because they were good at the time?

[PhilB]

Johndoe.....Collin thinks you take likelihood of fire into account...I think you have to start at the premis that a fire will occur...even in your stone masons....development is the issue, not likelihood.

Because we are dealing usually with life safety...you are at minimum levels...you cannot reduce fire safety provisions because fire is only likely every 20 years!!!..it may happen tommorow. But thanks for pointing out the major flaw with PAS 79.

Horse drawn pumps no....basic principles of fire safety yes.

[johndoe]

I agree about a fire occuring but what about how big will it be, hoquick will it grow how much smoke hot smoke cold smoke, smoke movement actuation of alarm ,movement of people all this was ignored in some of the old guides.

[PhilB]

Yes but not on good training courses...fire development not likelihood is the point.

[johndoe]

where are these good training courses?

[colin todd]

Oh dear, if these good training courses do not discuss liklihood, they will not enable risk assessments to comply with the management regs, nor will they prepare people for the RRO. But hey, lets keep reading the blue book to people because that will be REALLY useful in case they ever bring back fire certification. A bit like the old gas mask my mother kept through the 1950s just in case. Mr Doe, The draft RRO guide on cinemas and theatres has a bit on gas lighting, so why should our good friend Phil not teach steam pumps? Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think all good comms officers courses should teach how to put the 4 pennies in the box and press button B to send back the stop message.

[PhilB]

Collin, Collin wrong again the training courses discuss liklihood but frequency X severity is not in my opinion appropriate for fire risk assessment. Incidently Mr Todd at present FRS enforce Workplace Fire Precautions Legislation not The Management Regs...so your comment regarding RAs not complying...wrong again. You're interpretation of RRO...again wrong....but not relevant to this post...I will explain in another if you're really struggling.

The blue book should still be discussed as I have said before...IOs will be auditing premises that were designed using it, but I wouldn't expect you to grasp that concept Collin.