Portable clean agent fire extinguishers

[AnthonyB]

In reply to various:

Davo:

I didn't think that live halon discharge for training still went on - I stand corrected - most airline training centres stopped training use of halon for cabin staff for a combination of cost and environmental reasons, it goes against the spirit of the EC Regs to use halon for training although neither Annex VII nor The Environmental Protection (Controls on Ozone-Depleting Substances) Regulations 2002 specifically prohibit it. (training aircrew BCFs are water charged for the practical onto a gas fire simulator rig)

If you are blasting it off left right and centre then cost and supply problems will become an issue - have you trialled any alternatives yet? The MoD brought Powder in for most former BCF uses in the 90's, although they had to retrofit larger 2kg units in place of 3lb BCF's

Plus the latest review of the Annex VII exemptions is due for release by the EU any time now and the list may have been reduced.

Redone:

Restrictions on FM-200 and their fellow chemical agents are on the way with special requirements for existing systems regarding servicing and equipment set up to facilitate leak detection and the EU wants them to go, they are a limited life agent now as it's only a matter of time

pseudonym:

I was quoting likely retail not trade and the current Express catalogue only lists the Foxer clean agent extinguishers from ABS which are more expensive than the price you quoted for the ESTO Cheb stuff - thats where I was coming from with the costs

RFPS:

The UK routine for CO2 extinguishers is simply every 10 years now and has been for several years replacing the more complex 20 (10), 10, 5 regime.


Wallace:
Amerex's distilled water mist in the UK does not have 'electrically safe' pictograms in the UK despite the US identical extinguisher having the equivalent of that (Class C) & the Amerex UK literature doesn't say it's for electrical risks, just safe near them
A very small number of manufacturers (Total & UK Fire) do mark their water & foam sprays as electrically safe, but most do not.
A big difference here is we only really hydrotest CO2's where I am aware that virtually all types in the US require this (5/6 year intervals??)
The UK is quite unique in it's use of a wide range of portable extinguisher agents as a lot of the rest of the world seems to use ABC Dry Chemical as 'standard' with CO2 for specific applications and water based agent's least used

[Davo]

AnthonyB
We actually use molotov cocktails smashed at their feet to set fire to the recruits whilst they are in their protective kit- even the shoelaces are now fire retardent following an unfortunate incident!
We tried several alternatives but BCF won hands down, however, this was several years ago. if things have improved I would willingly arrange our Ops test an alternative.
I don't know the exact amounts as we refill our own kit, staff fully trained of course


davo

[AnthonyB]

Sounds like how they train at the 'Riot City' complex to me...

I don't have a problem personally with you discharging for training as in the situation you guys are in you couldn't do with a LPG simulated tray fire.

ABC powder seems to be the most used in forces around the world who have stopped using BCF. German police use ABC powder, but in the form of a special variant of a Gloria 6 kilo powder on a back cradle:



http://www.gloria.de/utcfs/ws-446/Assets/086237-01.pdf

which does mean you need to commit manpower at a public order situation just for fire control.

I agree few alternatives stand out - AFFF is too slow, CO2 to bulky and wind affected. Powder is the nearest, but as a one shot extinguisher as once the valve has got powder in it the pressure soon leaks off and even if you only squirted it for a second 5 minutes later it's useless. Plus you need to use a good quality powder - with ABC it should be ideally 90% MAP, BC either Purple K or monnex.

One major UK supplier to motor sport has two main types of belt mounted extinguisher for pit fires (similar situation, people on fire from spilled flammable liquids)  - 0.6L AR-AFFF, 700g monnex, plus larger units in FE-36

It would be interesting to do a practical comparison of all the different agents - there are all sorts of new agents appearing such as various high performance rapid knock down foams* and even phosphorous tribromide


*(Imprex, Firestopper AB, etc)

[Psuedonym]

In reply to various:

pseudonym:

I was quoting likely retail not trade and the current Express catalogue only lists the Foxer clean agent extinguishers from ABS which are more expensive than the price you quoted for the ESTO Cheb stuff - thats where I was coming from with the costs

They ( FE 36 ) weren't in the product guide of the time but John had a few in stock collecting dust, so my request benefitted both parties.