Schools - Malicious Alarm Activations

[Chris Houston]

I see many schools where there are problems with kids setting of the fire alarm systems via call points.

Most have tried covers, stoppers, raising awareness and CCTV to try and prevent this, but often it does not work.

What would folks out there recommend?

What if the schools were to have (5839-9 compliant) intercoms connected to a manned reception point instead of call points.  How many folks would find this acceptable?  (I've not read 5839-9 does it have any recommendations that a school would struggle to achieve?)

[colin todd]

1. Break the little buggers' fingers and they won't do it again.
2. If that doesnt work, I have had all the glasses in one student hostel coated with a forensic dye (available from the forensic science service, provided you convince them that, as you are not a police force, you have a legitimate application and need for the dye). When they touch the call point with their nasty little fingers they get the dye on their fingers. It is detectable witha fluorescent light source when you put their fingers under it.
3. Part 9 is of similar quality to the works of other literary greats, such as the great Robert Burns. The systems are expensive, however, as the code recommends cables of enhanced FR, albeit that you could probably waive that for the use of the system to raise the alarm ( the enhanced FR arises from the intended application being for use DURING a fire by fire brigade and disabled people). I would have thought the main problem about use of the system in a school would be having a reliable continuously manned location with which there would be communication.

[Ian Currie]

Its when you fit the 'Stoppers' then find out that some teachers tell the kids to stay put because 'its only another false alarm' that you realise Colins first solution is the best, and not just for the kids.  My patch has minimal arson and vandalism problems but the corollary is apathetic attitudes to safety procedures. Short of setting fire to the school yourself, how DO you get management to take safety seriously?

Colin, the literary merit of 5839 is beyond dispute, sadly you don't often hear it recited at Burns Suppers these days.

[colin todd]

Wot, not even in the Scottish Borders? Where, readers should note from Ian's post, that the little kiddiewinkles are far too sensible to get up to anything wrong (apart from maybe sex with the sheep).

[Chris Houston]

To suggest an answer to the question: "how DO you get management to take safety seriously?"

"Education"?

If all elese fails "Prosecution"?

Or, as I suspect, nothing will ever get done until there is a fatality then everyone will be asking "Why was nothing done?"

[Ken Taylor]

In a school where they had this problem constantly, it was agreed with the fire authority to change the system to the effect that activating a call-point set off a stand-by signal and notified the caretakers that they had x minutes in which to get to the call-pont in order to cancel the alarm if considered applicable before the signal changed to an evacuation one. I should be interested to hear whether this is still acceptable and practised. Incidentally, they also had to replace the hoses by portable extinguishers - which is a good idea anyway.

[AnthonyB]

My old school never went into evacuate on a call point activation, this could only be done via the main panel (an old Gent 240V drop flag unit IIRC). The break glass started a continuous alarm, which everyone ignored, and a panel key switch was used to convert the signal to an intermittent bell at which everyone evacuated. So the only time the school evacuated was at the annual drill, even thought the odd break glass was smashed through the year (esp at end of term or year)

"Incidentally, they also had to replace the hoses by portable extinguishers - which is a good idea "

Which is a good idea except in my school they ended up locked away in rooms & cupboards on the floor amongst other junk as every year every extinguisher that wasn't in a kitchen, craft dept, lab or office had to be recharged.

But it was good practice in refilling! For several years I went around with the engineer from the fire service checking (& often refilling) all my schools extinguishers.

Incidentally extinguisher vandalism on corridor extinguishers was only a problem after the late 80's when new extinguishers were fitted as the original conical soda-acids couldn't be discharged whilst in their bracket, but the squeeze grip gas-waters could.

[Ken Taylor]

Presumably this was before the advent of the GRP alarmed extinguisher cabinet, Anthony. Perhaps some manufactuere would like to take up the idea of interlocked operating mechanisms for extinguishers whereby removal from the bracket is necessary to achieve operation - or does the double cable-tie system still deter offenders?

[AnthonyB]

Presumably this was before the advent of the GRP alarmed extinguisher cabinet, Anthony. Perhaps some manufactuere would like to take up the idea of interlocked operating mechanisms for extinguishers whereby removal from the bracket is necessary to achieve operation - or does the double cable-tie system still deter offenders?

It was (just) but unfortunately it's cheaper to lock them in a cupboard or office!
Sveral types of extinguishers over the years had to be removed from the bracket before they could be operated, but not any more

[Guest]

I have as an operational officer had several problems with a particular school (where the boys were boys and the sheep were afraid!) when the call points were fair game. After several calls to and investigation of we stumbled upon an effective measure. It was very wet and all the kids were outside damping down whilst we 'investigated'. Unfortunately it took us some time and a coffee break to confirm no fire and let them back in. Funnily enough we didnt have false alarms there for a while (at least till the summer).

I therefor agree with the Education route, this has to include staff as well. No point in the children knowing what to do if they aren't allowed or prevented from!!

[Ken Taylor]

Let me hasten to assure the last contributor that they did have Termly evacuation drills. With regard to the 'keep them out in the rain and snow' policy, a problem is that the culprits tend to initiate the false alarms at times when it suits them to leave the building. However, I suppose one could threaten to have an official evacuation in the rain for every false one in good weather - but the teachers would not be too happy about this and one could get into trouble with the Education Authority, DfES, Europe, etc under Human Rights legislation. :?

[Chris Houston]

The above suggestion could lead to injury.  It is not a wise idea, nor does it seem a fair idea for the 99% of pupils.

I would suggest that a successful claim for compensation could be the result of such an activity.

[Ian Currie]

In the final analyses it all comes down to Management. Its normally the same few kids who are responsible for malicious alarms or setting off extinguishers and someone always knows who they are. Usually the staff have a good idea themselves who it is and sufficient effort by management would probably nail the culprits 99 times out of 100. Visibly penalising the perpetrators or seeing them reported to the police would a better deterrent than any length of time spent shivering in the rain.   (A few strokes of the tawse would have sorted them out in my day but, kids nowadays, mutter, mutter, mu...)

As to delayed calls, I'm stopping the practice of janitors running around like nervous sheep trying to find the cause of the alarm.  If you require them to investigate then you must recognise that they may potentially be entering an area affected by fire. Consequently, you must provide them with relevant  training (and, arguably, suitable equipment) to keep them safe.  That is fairly costly and time consuming to do it properly. It's probably more efficient to concentrate on getting everyone out as quickly and as safely as possible and leave the rest to the fire service who have the training and equipment for it.

I also doubt whether a brigade nowadays would be prepared to accept a delay without a VERY strong argument in its favour backed up by a thorough risk assessment. Even then, the arrangements are only as good as the current management.

If the brigades ever do start to charge for false calls it may encourage some managements to take fire safety more seriously, not a bad thing!  :twisted:

[colin todd]

Yup, the old Scottish tawse didn't do you any harm, Ian. How many kids nowadays (especially in England) would know that the plural of analysis is analyses.

[Guest]

Having had this problem of the little darlings setting the alarms off in two particular High Schools in my area, both schools took different ways of dealing with the problem. One school imposed a "fine" of anyone caught activating the alarm or mis use of extinguishers £50, they only had to fine 1 pupil and miraculously the problem seems to have gone away. The other school finally catching the culprit after several weeks of setting the alarm off, excluded him from school for a short period of time, this also seem to have worked.
I think there are plenty of solutions people need the backbone to carry them through.