Fire Doors

[Marie]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know about the seals in Fire doors? We have some old doors and the seals/brushes inbetween the doors are very worn and some you can see straight through the seal.

Should these be replaced? or do they expand when there is a fire. Also does anyone know if there is a publication i can buy to find out about these types of things?

Thanks in advance for your help

Marie :/

[wee brian]

There are two types of seal that are routinely fitted to a fire doo.

Intumescent seals - these expand when heated - this tends to hold the door in the frame when its starting to distort.

Smoke seals - basicly these look like draught excluders (thats what they are really) - these stop smoke from leaking through the gaps around the door.

The odds are your doors have both possibly fitted as a single dual function product. If the smoke seals are worn then you should get them replaced. The intumescents dont start to expand until things are really hot so will not prevent smoke leaking through the door in the early part of a fire. This, of course, is the period when you are still in the building, so its kind of important.

[Davo]

Marie
Try the Intumescent Fire Seals Association (IFSA) website, or British Woodworking Federation (BWF) Certifire
Both do excellent info sheets/fact cards (free to download)!
 from ifsa. org.uk and bwf.org.uk

There is also BS8214 on fire doors, be aware though some contractors don't appear to have heard of it

dave

[GB]

Continuing the theme on FD's can anyone help educate me in their inclusion.

I have a building around 15 years old with solid doors with Self closers and a viewing panel that shows no indication of being intumescent. It does however have a blue dot in the side of the hinges. What does this mean?

I also have all singing fire doors that have s/c's, 3 hinges, georgian wire viewing panels, int & smoke seals - but are housed within a glazed wall panel that has toughened glass - no sign of it being intumescent - this is on an escape route - is this normal practice?

[barrhump]

GB
The dot may be part of an old BWF scheme for the identification of fire resisting door leaves.
(White background with a Blue Core) indicates that the doors must be fitted with specified intumescent in frames or doors.
Regards
Barry

[GB]

Does that mean that you should be able to see the intumescent strip either in the door or frame. Is there any way that the strip can be concealed behind a timber strip on the door edge?. Its just that I can't see the strip although the door has the blue dot. I have tried suggested sites with no success either.

[Tom Sutton]

The red dot means intumescent strip needs fixing, most probally it has not been fitted.

Try http://www.firesafe.org.uk/html/fsequip/firedoor.htm

[ernie ewen]

When painting the door edges there is no evidence to
suggest that over-painting of the intumescent seals
by conventional paints or varnishes, in normal
thicknesses, has any particularly harmful effect.
Indeed, such painting can provide added protection
to the seals
There is no evidence to suggest that overpainting of
heat activated seals has any detrimental effect on
the ability of the seals to perform efficiently. There
are some benefits in overpainting the seals as they
are less likely to absorb atmospheric moisture.
However, there are limits on how much paint can be
applied without there being a risk of the seal being
rendered inoperative. It is recommended that
overpainting be limited to a maximum of five coats
of conventional oil bound paint or varnish.
When preparing a frame for redecoration, the use of
heat or chemical strippers should be avoided if
intumescent seals are incorporated. If seals are
damaged by either of these processes, they should be
replaced here is an extract from BS8214 hope it helps

[Chris Houston]

When painting the door edges there is no evidence to
suggest that over-painting of the intumescent seals
by conventional paints or varnishes, in normal
thicknesses, has any particularly harmful effect.
Indeed, such painting can provide added protection
to the seals
There is no evidence to suggest that overpainting of
heat activated seals has any detrimental effect on
the ability of the seals to perform efficiently. There
are some benefits in overpainting the seals as they
are less likely to absorb atmospheric moisture.
However, there are limits on how much paint can be
applied without there being a risk of the seal being
rendered inoperative. It is recommended that
overpainting be limited to a maximum of five coats
of conventional oil bound paint or varnish.
When preparing a frame for redecoration, the use of
heat or chemical strippers should be avoided if
intumescent seals are incorporated. If seals are
damaged by either of these processes, they should be
replaced here is an extract from BS8214 hope it helps

You say there is no evidence that this causes problems, is there any evidence that it does not?

[Big A]

Is it not a bad thing to coat a fire door in flammable material?

[ernie ewen]

I agree with your statments gents so who writes the BS standards they are the people who are the knowledgeable Allegedly

[wee brian]

Romft

Well it kind of varies, like most things in life. There are some good people and some not so good. The various members are representing different interests so you don't always get straight answers from people.

Big A

The majority of fire doors are made from flammable (better to use combustible as there is less confusion) material - wood.

[Big A]

:rolleyes:

[Davo]

I was (to quote a certain website publicity) the police H & S/Fire advisor who raised this subject many months ago

How on earth do you know when your decorator has reached five?

The fire doors in the restored premises I had in mind were so overpainted I had to use my hands to detect the intumescent

I was thinking about having the doors stripped down and repainted as the cost of tailor made FDs would have been prohibitive.

I suppose I should be grateful they missed the brushes?

davo

[Auntie LIn]

Going back to GBs comment (sorry chaps I'm a late arrival) it is possible that intumescent seals can be concealed behind a lipping.   I know it won't be popular with all you macho chaps, but try carrying a handbag mirror around with you.   You hold it over the leaf edges at the head, and if there is a seal concealed behind a lipping this is the best way you're going to find it.