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THE REGULATORY REFORM (FIRE SAFETY) ORDER 2005 => Q & A => Topic started by: TFEM on August 22, 2008, 06:38:34 PM
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I was told that emergency lighting luminaires that are sited above exit doors/routes are designed to emit a certain level of light and covering them with a sticky backed fire exit sticker reduces the light they give off.
Does anyone know if it is written anywhere that this must not be done as ALL fitters that I come across seem to do it . I believe that if needed , a sign should be placed above or below the luminaire rather than on it.
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There is some confusion here between the requirement for internally illuminated exit signs in which the illumination is maintained at all times and those lighting units that are provided to ensure that there is a minimum level of light along the escape route for safe movement, and at specific points of emphasis- eg changes in direction, changes in level, exit doors, fire points or signs that are not internally illuminated so that they can be seen. Often this general escape lighting for safe movement is not maintained on all the time but operates in the event of a failure of the primary lighting.
The need for illuminated exit signs will depend on the use of the building- eg if the premises are likely at any time to have subdued primary lighting- entertainments or for sleeping accommodation where the lights in escape routes will normally be off.
It is permissible to count include the light emitted from an illuminated exit sign as contributing to the minimum level of escape lighting and some illuminated exit signs are specifically designed to do this- having for example a lens in their base to illuminate an exit door below.
If you have included the light from the illuminated exit signs in your general lighting provision then care needs to be taken when stickers on illuminated signs are updated and light level measurements should be taken to ensure that the minimum 1 Lux throughout the exit route (can be 0.2 lux in exit corridors guaranteed to be clear of obstructions), and average 0.5l ux across the general floor area are maintained.For some high risk premises higher levels are required, for some uses lower levels are permitted.
Look out for BS5266 part 1 2005 and BSEN 1838 1999 for Emergency lighting standards, and BS5499 - 3 1990 (I think still current) for internally illuminated safety signs.
So care is needed in the choice and selection and stickers should not be placed willy nilly on lighting units over exits- the unit may just have been provided to ensure sufficient light for safe movement.
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Also the correct stickers should be used - I have seen normal vinyl safety signs used in the past and they can sometimes block a lot of light out, although a lot of the 'proper' stickers aren't on transparent vinyl and are similar to normal signs - a lot depends on the output of the fitting used.
(I have seen rigid plastic signs stuck over an exit box rather than under it's down lighter in the past too!).
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(I have seen rigid plastic signs stuck over an exit box rather than under it's down lighter in the past too!).
Noooo!!! Please no!!
:lol:
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This is a genuine photo guys, words fail....
http://www.safetyphoto.co.uk/photo1/fire_enviro_risk/safety_signs/safety_signs.htm
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Nice to see that none are correct.
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Well spotted Jokar! ;)
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Jokar
In our premises, they appear only to come in one type, arrow down!
Not to mention we still have loads of old Caps only, no arrow around.
I get fed up of reporting these
Its amazing really that I still have a fine head of hair.
davo
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You certainly have a head of hair. The rest is down to the eye of the beholder.
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getting very fishy around here
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The effectiveness and viewing distance of an escape route sign is influenced as a function of illumination. There is a table in BS5499 Part 4 that gives good practice guidance for externally illuminated signs which would also include non maintained units. I have always held the view that escape route signs should be completely seperate from emergency lighting. Lighting should be for illumination and as a function of illumination signs should show the direction of egress to safety....if you keep them seperate you will get effective illumination of the centre path.obstacles and escape route and by correct positioning of signs the signs will have effective illumination and effective safety wayguidance.
As it has already been pointed out immediately you place a vinyl overlay on the luminaire you require a further luminaire to satisfy the illumination requirements on the escape path...this is inefficient in every respect.
If you use Photoluminescent signs you will have belt and braces....save maintenance, save electricity and save landfill of electrical components. Just a thought!!
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If you use Photoluminescent signs you will have belt and braces....save maintenance, save electricity and save landfill of electrical components. Just a thought!!
As long as you have sufficient light all the time to charge them. Nightclubs, Escape routes with switched or PIR lighting that are not normally lit (on the increase), etc
It's a pity that LED lighting has not filtered through more - longer fitting life, less bulb failure, brighter crisper light output, far less power consumption. A firm (Olympia?) had a range on display at Firex a couple of years back and they looked quite impressive - I hope that the take up of their stuff isn't slowed by the fact they are Greek, not with the tons of Chinese stuff about....
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Totally agree, in places of entertainment the luminaire that illuminates the sign should be in the maintained condition. The sign being photoluminescent will be of added benefit should the luminaire be logged by smoke the sign will be still be effective.
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The requirements for lighting and signage are covered by different BSs and are usually not mixed. The 8w fluorescent bulkhead fitting can be used as either a light or as a sign. One fitting should not be used to cover both uses. This fitting was originally used as a sign because it is IP54 rated, so can be used externally or in humid environments, where a traditional "shoe box" exit sign is not suitable.
LEDS are moving forward rapidly and the major advantage is longlife, particularly in maintained signs. Again, they should not be mixed in terms of application. We use a 3w LED with an optical lens to give extended spacings, far greater than can be achieved with conventional bulkhead fittings..
Chris
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It's a pity that LED lighting has not filtered through more - longer fitting life, less bulb failure, brighter crisper light output, far less power consumption. A firm (Olympia?) had a range on display at Firex a couple of years back and they looked quite impressive - I hope that the take up of their stuff isn't slowed by the fact they are Greek, not with the tons of Chinese stuff about....
Hochiki are pushing their addressable LED Firelux product which looks very good.... we're booked on the training very soon.
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I am a fairly long-in-the-tooth electrical inspecting engineer. My remit often extends to to deliberations on fire alarm and emergency lighting. I regularly find serious defects in emergency lighting systems, many relating to recommended illuminance levels. Where possible, I endeavour to measure light levels as relying on spacing ratios and photometric data on existing systems is often a difficult chore, especially where documentation is not available. It is perhaps for this reason that my Reports are often at odds with Reports issued by contractors, many of whom seem content that an emergency luminaire is physically present but ignore the first principles enshrined in the inverse square law and cosine rule which result in rapid diminution of illuminance levels as one moves further away from the light source. It is quite remarkable to witness the starkness of this in the field and a valuable lesson for those who often just cast their eye over an emergency lighting system. Relying on illuminated exit signs to provide required illuminance levels is dubious unless there is clear, ratified design data.
I do not design systems but I know some who do. They normally ignore the light output of exit boxes in their calculations which is why you may often find a non-maintained unit fairly close to an illuminated exit sign in many installations.
By the way, if the exit sign is over a final exit, stick your head outside (open the door first) to see if there is any evidence of emergency luminaires positioned to facilitate dispersal. The absence of these is a pet hate of mine and a very common defect!
Regards,
Lyle Dunn
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By the way, if the exit sign is over a final exit, stick your head outside (open the door first) to see if there is any evidence of emergency luminaires positioned to facilitate dispersal. Regards,
Very common is right Lyle as is the failure to interface EL circuits with the general lighting circuits. I find many installers wire all EL circuits back to one dedicated fuse and system certified to the BS. They will operate in event on mains failure but that's it.
Handy for servicing though. Is that maybe why they do it?
During a FRA survey I had exchange of words with an installer when I checked EL in a 3 storey day nursery. EL did not operate when corridor & stairway general lighting RCCB serving this area knocked off. Installer said he had never heard of this requirement before and had installed hundreds of systems without question.
Struth!
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Strange is it not that the electrical contracting industry require operatives to have a reasonable working knowledge of BS7671 2008 but utterly ignore the Standards associated with emergency lighting and fire alarms!
Regards,
Lyle Dunn
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If the fitting is being used as a sign, then it has to face the punters who are escaping. It’s typically going to be wall-mounted. An emergency light that directs most of its light in the face of those punters does little except dazzle them, so the reduction in intensity provided by the sign is probably a good thing!
My recollection is that you can include these in your lighting design as providing illumination to the doorway, provided that you have illuminance data for them when used on a bulkhead (i.e. how much light they throw out sideways). Hard to come by units with this data, so normally safest to assume they don’t contribute & design accordingly, unless you’ve got measured lux data that you can refer to.
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Nearly crashed the other morning on my way back to my digs in a very, very remote Scottish spot.
As I dropped down the Clarkson rated road, screaming around a tight bend, there in front of me were wee small white dots forming arrow shapes on a deep black background. Closer and closer it approached, as I calculated the time needed to hit the brakes, drop a few gears and turn the wheel without braking my wrists so as to to be able to turn around and raise the rate of knots neaded to hightail it back over the hills to escape the approaching alian monster beheld before me.
NO !! Wait !!
All is not lost ! That's no alian craft up ahead you fool !! Just a mind boggling invention to drop a subtle hint that this little road is changing direction. Phew !!
Thanks to the highway bods my life is safe.
Cameron my be a bit pissed off to see such a waste of monies (he's "on your side" you know..) and some clever drivers may say they are a patronising waste of time but hey, the're just another clever desk jockeys idea on how to save our skins, buy a few LED's and watch the 'lecky meter tick by.......Public servants my arse.