FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Ricardo on June 29, 2010, 09:02:32 AM
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http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1802302
This will please the B & B brigade
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Of course this would mean that the new guidance, although eminating from Scotland, would be applicable throughout UK.
Anyone any idea where the guidance might be sourced?
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This bit gets me in the draft document.
"If battery powered systems are used you will want to consider installing mains
powered smoke alarms permanently wired to a circuit when the lifetime of the
10 year battery is ended or when repair or redecoration work is being carried
out to the property."
So you can have a self contained battery system but you should consider installing mains powdered alarms if you:-
paint the windows
re-paper the kids bedroom
fix the toilet flush
stain the front door.................
How do these repairs and redecoration works suddenly require the need for an upgrade?
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I don't believe the new guide is officially out yet, not sure why it would apply outside Scotland? the guidance relates to the Fire (Scotland) Act and as you have said NT why would I need to upgrade from my battery detector that has served me well for ten years, what constitutes repair or redecoration work that warrants this upgrade to mains powered.Or do I just need to consider it and then note in my review that I am sticking with the batteries as the work so well.
see
http://www.infoscotland.com/firelaw/files/smallsleeping.pdf
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I don't believe the new guide is officially out yet, not sure why it would apply outside Scotland?
How can you justify having differing standards for the same situation in the same country just because of a cultural border? Enforcement must be fair.
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I don't believe the new guide is officially out yet, not sure why it would apply outside Scotland?
How can you justify having differing standards for the same situation in the same country just because of a cultural border? Enforcement must be fair.
Possibly because of differing legislation maybe? Although I must agree there aint that much different between them.
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I don't believe the new guide is officially out yet, not sure why it would apply outside Scotland?
How can you justify having differing standards for the same situation in the same country just because of a cultural border? Enforcement must be fair.
Possibly because of differing legislation maybe? Although I must agree there aint that much different between them.
The legislation is essentially similar but both require the undertaking of a fire risk assessment. Unless someone knows different I don't think the Orders specify the standards required. That is left to guidance.
It would be unfair for a catagory of B&B in England, Wales or NI to have to spend many thousands on fire safety measures whereas in Scotland a much lesser and cheaper standard amounting to hundreds would be acceptable.
Where it occurs could it be considered to be against the principles of the Enforcement Concordat?
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But don't forget that the border between England & Scotland (& England and NI for that matter) is more than cultural - they are different countries in as much as they have totally different legal systems and also their own (albeit devolved as oppose to independent) governments with fire being a devolved issue.
It may not seem fair, but is only akin to the USA where as you move between States you need to update yourself on laws, ordnances and standards required as they often differ.
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I don't believe the new guide is officially out yet, not sure why it would apply outside Scotland?
How can you justify having differing standards for the same situation in the same country just because of a cultural border? Enforcement must be fair.
Possibly because of differing legislation maybe? Although I must agree there aint that much different between them.
Where it occurs could it be considered to be against the principles of the Enforcement Concordat?
The Enforcement Concordat only concerns itself with England and Wales though.
(I don't really care, I just wanted to create another level of quoting.)
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I don't believe the new guide is officially out yet, not sure why it would apply outside Scotland?
How can you justify having differing standards for the same situation in the same country just because of a cultural border? Enforcement must be fair.
Possibly because of differing legislation maybe? Although I must agree there aint that much different between them.
Where it occurs could it be considered to be against the principles of the Enforcement Concordat?
The Enforcement Concordat only concerns itself with England and Wales though.
(I don't really care, I just wanted to create another level of quoting.)
As I understand it Civvy all local authorities in NI & Scotland have signed up to the concordat.
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I don't believe the new guide is officially out yet, not sure why it would apply outside Scotland?
How can you justify having differing standards for the same situation in the same country just because of a cultural border? Enforcement must be fair.
Possibly because of differing legislation maybe? Although I must agree there aint that much different between them.
Where it occurs could it be considered to be against the principles of the Enforcement Concordat?
The Enforcement Concordat only concerns itself with England and Wales though.
(I don't really care, I just wanted to create another level of quoting.)
As I understand it Civvy all local authorities in NI & Scotland have signed up to the concordat.
OK then. I must thank you for keeping the quotes alive.
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New guide for small sleeping accommodation now out for Scotland, see link
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/public-safety/fire-and-rescue-services/resources/firesafetyguidancebbs/Q/EditMode/on/ForceUpdate/on
see also
28 June 2010
Dear Chief Officer
DEAR CHIEF OFFICER (SCOTLAND) LETTER 7/2010:
Fire Safety in Small Bed and Breakfast and Self-Catering Accommodation.
You will be aware that in late 2008 concerns were raised with Ministers about the fire safety guidance for small bed and breakfast and self-catering accommodation. As a consequence Dear Chief Officer (Scotland) Letter 4/2008 advised Chief Officers that the benchmarks in the guidance document ‘Practical Fire Safety Guidance for Small Premises Providing Sleeping Accommodation’ (small guide) were suspended for this particular type of premises. Fire and rescue services were also recommended to reschedule their routine audit and enforcement activity in this sector until such time as the revised guidance was available.
I am writing to advise you that new guidance for properties, defined within its scope, was published today. A copy can be downloaded using the following link http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/public-safety/fire-and-rescue-services/resources and is in the process of being added to the Fire Law website. An appropriate amendment will also now be made to the scope of the small guide.
This new guidance is issued by Scottish Ministers under Section 61(2) of the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005, as amended, and fire and rescue services are required to take into account the contents of this guide to assist in determining the advice to provide dutyholders and whether enforcement action may be necessary. Chief Officers’ are therefore asked to make fire safety enforcement officers aware of the contents of this letter
Steps are being taken by the Scottish Government to publicise the new guidance through a press release and through national tourism and other organisations such as the Federation of Small Businesses, Business Gateway, and Healthy Working Lives. You will wish to consider if there are any steps that can be taken locally by your Service to make dutyholders aware of the new guidance.
Yours faithfully
Graeme Fraser
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I read the guidance and was pleasantly surprised. I saw the initial consultation draft and they have taken on board many of the comments made by the Fire Industry. It appears to me to be a reasonable compromise towards common sense, though the numbers of persons at risk is higher than I anticipated.
Overall Well done Scotland!
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Is this the new B&B guidance at http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/254432/0100666.pdf or is it a transcript of the guide I would have expected to see it tarted up a bit more if its the final guide?
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A UK circular to having paying guests (is that the same as B&B?)
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/fsc602008
and
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/payingguests
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The will to change the existing Guidance Document was due in the main to Lobbying by The Federation of Small Businesses in Scotland. They had many Members running small B&B establishments and over zealous Fire Safety Officers were expecting Benchmark Standards in these small "houses".
Proprietors said they couldn't afford to make changes, structural or not to comply with the requirements some FSO's were expecting. It was also the year of Homecoming where millions of extra visitors were expected and all bed spaces were required. The existing Guidance was suspended while consultation was made.
The new Guide is using common sense in most areas. Remember these are "small" premises. A glaring problem though is the ommision of the requirement for Water or AFFF and CO2 extinguishers. Dry Powder in the kitchen? With the mess they make there will be no food made for days. As we all know Dry Powder does not cool combustible solid fires and will/could re-ignite. Fires of electrical origin is still the number one cause of fire in buildings. Why no CO2 extinguisher. Dry Powder extinguishers are often used as a catch all trying to save money by only buying one extinguisher instead of two.
Not good practice.
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No but cheap compact practice & has been in the DCLG entry level guide for small premises since the outset.
Unless somewhere it would be prejudicial to safety such as healthcare, large public assembly, etc you can't really say no on Fire Safety Order Grounds - it's ABC rated and electrically safe and will snuff a smaller A rated fire fine and melt on the embers - it's the established deep seated stuff it may have problems with (but not to be confused with BC Powder which really was poor).
You know & I know that it may be jack of all trades but master of none and can cause terrible secondary damage, but that's for the user to worry about not the regulator.
Water based & CO2 extinguishers may be better, but the revision is intended to reduce the burden of measures for really small premises & that includes having loads of different extinguishers for specific risks.
I can understand their reasoning & wouldn't throw a fit about it (but would if the place ended up full of BC Powder extinguishers from Halfords - to avoid confusion BC Powder extinguishers should be limited to the 9 kilo Monnex & Purple K units in specialist industry these days)