Fire Commissioning Engineer thinking of going Self Employed

[Graeme]

How about world peace?

since we are asking for everything eh Wiz.

A fully qualified Engineer working for a third party acredited company seems fine by me.
A fully qualifed Engineer with all the documents to prove it,would be okay for me if i had a fire alarm that needed serviced.

[Wiz]

Seems we all do agree after all.

I was only concerned that emc was being advised that third party accreditation was almost a necessary requirement to enable him to start a business in the fire alarm industry. If that had been the case, after gaining all his experience and qualifications, bought his tools and test equipment and paid for his liability insurance, he would then have to had got third-party accreditation which I believe, also includes having to gain ISO9000 amongst other requirements.

When you start working for yourself, you normally do not have the funds (or time) to achieve everything a big company might be able to easily afford. The big companies also find such 'necessary requirements' even more affordable if it also enables them to get rid of some potential competition!

I only hope that onerous and costly requirements never become a necessity to enable someone to work on fire alarm systems, when there is already a suitable framework of recommendations to follow to carry out a job properly as a Competent Person.

[emc2jkd1]

Ok let’s complicate it a bit then.

If I am employed by the Electrical Contractor to commission the system for a day then can I come under his Liability insurance in stead of having to get my own as I am just getting started?

[Wiz]

Ok let’s complicate it a bit then.

If I am employed by the Electrical Contractor to commission the system for a day then can I come under his Liability insurance in stead of having to get my own as I am just getting started?

Check with the Electrical Contractor on this. Normally his own insurance will cover only his own employees. i.e. properly on the payroll and not normally any sub-contractors. If something goes wrong with your commissioning the insurance company will be looking for ways not to pay out and his insurance company would use this as a reason. If  the Electrical Contractor says you are covered get it in writing, otherwise I would strongly advise you get your own liabilty insurance that covers you specifically for the type of work in question.

[Chris Houston]

I'm not sure about this, I've not got the time to read the CFOA guidance document, but I think that they recommended to the FRS that over the next few years, if a fire alarm system has signalling, they should only respond to systems that are serviced by a 3rd party accredited maintenance contractor.

[Wiz]

I'm not sure about this, I've not got the time to read the CFOA guidance document, but I think that they recommended to the FRS that over the next few years, if a fire alarm system has signalling, they should only respond to systems that are serviced by a 3rd party accredited maintenance contractor.

It wouldn't surprise me but it would disappoint me if it was so. Improving the standard of something is never a bad thing. But we must always consider the costs and implications. Will we eventually get to the situation where we had privately-owned Fire Services competing against publically owned FS because their terms, conditions and costs were more reasonable to 'customers'

[David Rooney]

Seems we all do agree after all.

I was only concerned that emc was being advised that third party accreditation was almost a necessary requirement to enable him to start a business in the fire alarm industry. If that had been the case, after gaining all his experience and qualifications, bought his tools and test equipment and paid for his liability insurance, he would then have to had got third-party accreditation which I believe, also includes having to gain ISO9000 amongst other requirements.

I actually said for "credibility". The British Standard advises users to seek out third party accredited firms, as do the reform regs, so don't shoot the messenger.

And no, you don't need ISO 9000 to get accreditation.

You will always find work if you are any good, with or without accreditation, and I cannot see an electrical companies insurance agent excepting liability for your work.

I agree with the principle that we shouldn't need bodies looking over our shoulders, and I don't like paying their bill either, but without them you are are back to any tom, dick or EMC =D  commissioning a system. So who then is going to say whether a system is installed correctly?

Because if I was one of those unscrupulous sorts, I'm sure I could throw a few ropey systems in, get paid, then disappear and re-invent myself and do it all again.

It seems to me that TPA is about the only way of weeding out the cowboys, which can include large electrical contractors, as just because they have NICIEC status doesn't make them competent to design and install a fire alarm system. Although this can only really work if insurance agents stop accepting certificates written on photocopies from the BS !

Without TPA anybody could do anything, would you have a non Corgi contractor service your boiler?

[Wiz]

David,
Points taken and accepted. As long as we don't end up with costly tiers of bureaucracy all will be well. I may be cynical, but I see so much of these sort of requirements as 'jobs for the boys'!

[David Rooney]

David,
Points taken and accepted. As long as we don't end up with costly tiers of bureaucracy all will be well. I may be cynical, but I see so much of these sort of requirements as 'jobs for the boys'!

Totally agree.

Unfortunately I think there is far too much money to be made for it ever to change. When you think that the NSI have just introduced "Modification" certificates, and each one of those costs me £25 (I believe) as most of our work is servicing and minor mods, the NSI will be having a good old knees up on my contribution alone !