Author Topic: FRS charging for their services  (Read 22515 times)

Offline Lee999

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2005, 01:02:27 AM »
Messy

When I tore myself away from the LFB in the year 2k, I know that the Brigade were charging large commecial premises(hospitals) in the event of repeat AFA's.

RNOH is an example?

Or so my ADO led me to believe

Offline fireftrm

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2005, 04:36:52 PM »
It is ILLEGAL to charge for AFAs at present, indeed one FRS found itself in the dock for trying.
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Offline colin todd

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2005, 06:48:13 PM »
Ah the old Northampton case Firey.
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Offline ian gough

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2005, 07:45:03 PM »
Just for the 'record', Northamptonshire Fire Authority were never in any dock regarding charging for false alarms.

Offline colin todd

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2005, 01:55:10 AM »
No, they were ''innocent'' bystanders in the case of the health authority v Thorn Security, the health authority refusing to pay for false alarm charges that the fire authority charged Thorn and that Thorn understandably passed on.
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Offline ian gough

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2005, 12:12:11 PM »
That is correct.

Offline fireftrm

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2005, 01:16:30 PM »
And thre result was that Thorn quielty told the FA of the court's decision...................., prior to Thorn suing the FA
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Offline ian gough

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2005, 04:18:22 PM »
Wrong again fireftrm. Nothing further happened - strange but true.

Offline colin todd

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2005, 07:00:53 PM »
Whole thing was strange. If they had continued to charge they could have afforded to take the City Logistics case to the Court of Intergalactic and Alien rights.
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Offline fireftrm

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2005, 07:58:45 PM »
Ah not quite - every FRA stopped any idea of charging and the one concerned stopped too. Hardly nothing, but no further court actions, true. So it did have a reaction, or is the change of policies nothing? no, Thorn did not have to sue the FA, whether they got any of the money back, I do not know but maybe this wqas out of court nad thuis why it remains quiet. The case demonstrated thatit was ILLEGAL for FAs to charge for AFA calls. Quite an important decision for those who were already charging.

Also the action made it to the Bain review -

5.21 In their evidence to us, ODPM have pointed out that the 1947 Act also allows fire authorities to use fire brigades for purposes other than dealing with fires, such as assisting at road accidents. But we note that there is no significant funding for this activity. Fire authorities have the power to charge for the use of brigade assets in certain circumstances such as road traffic accidents when fire is not involved. But they cannot currently charge for attendance at automatic fire alarms following the Court of Appeal decision Thorn v Sackville (1992).

And from LFEPA submission to Bain:

False alarms from automatic fire alarms
5.30   The fire service is responding to an increasing number of false alarms generated by automatic fire detection equipment.    This is a drain on our resources, diverting time and effort away from other more important activities, such as community fire safety and education work.

5.31   Until the Court of Appeal decision in Thorn Security Ltd v Sackville (1992) many fire authorities levied a charge on companies having fire alarms with a direct line into Brigade mobilising centres, when false alarms resulted from faulty equipment.    As a result of that case, such charges can no longer be levied.   This has resulted in a denial of potential income to London's fire authority of a six figure sum annually.  It has also removed a substantial financial incentive for fire alarm companies to install alarms correctly, keep them properly maintained and ensure that staff and properly trained in their correct use.


So nothing at all happened after the case...............................................
Right again fireftrm, wrong Ian Gough
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Offline ian gough

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2005, 09:15:17 AM »
Nothing happened insofar as you alleged (twice) ie Northants were not sued - and no action even commenced against the fire authority. I agree debate has rumbled on in many quarters.

Offline fireftrm

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FRS charging for their services
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2005, 04:42:08 PM »
I made the comment of a FA 'in the dock' but not that they were sued, the 'second' attempt was - "speaking to them before they sue" rather that I was trying to convey that no case had to be pursued, I apolgise if this was mistaken by you. It is my impression of the case that no case was taken forward as the Thorn one made it quite clear to the FA what the legal situation was, no doubt an out of court settlement kept the issue as one of 'incommunicado'.
My posts reflect my personal views and beliefs and not those of my employer. If I offend anyone it is usually unintentional, please be kind. If it is intentional I guess it will be clear!