Author Topic: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area  (Read 13875 times)

Offline nearlythere

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2012, 04:25:10 PM »
Central London. And yes they are going to get the FRA done asap. One was done about three years ago before all this was discussed.
Do you know if it hightlight any issues then? Have you access to it?
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Mar62

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2012, 04:35:05 PM »
it made recommendations for fire alarm system and there was no emergency lighting at all (both now all done). There were no inspections on the electrical installation. Recommendations to improve the gaps between the doors in the communal areas or replace them. But now this has been discussed about removing one set of doors. I can get it sometime but not at this moment.
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?

Offline AnthonyB

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2012, 10:00:58 PM »
If these are purpose built the fire alarm may well have been unnecessary if it is a general needs block (or is it sheltered?) - there is no mention of smoke control provision (or lack of) which mustn't be overlooked.
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Offline William 29

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2012, 09:35:15 PM »
it made recommendations for fire alarm system and there was no emergency lighting at all (both now all done). There were no inspections on the electrical installation. Recommendations to improve the gaps between the doors in the communal areas or replace them. But now this has been discussed about removing one set of doors. I can get it sometime but not at this moment.

I think in light of a fire alarm being installed there are too many issues here without having more detailed information.  What I think you need to determine is what was the benchmark in respect of fire resistance, lobbies and the internal layout of the flats at the time of construction?
How far removed are the current fire resistance levels from that benchmark and have the conditions made it worse and increased the risk i.e. the installation of a common fire alarm indicating full evacuation.

Where the blocks designed to support a stay put policy and is that still achievable?

What is the maximum travel distance from the furthest flat to a protected lobby or the stair?  Is this in line with the existing standard or current standards (7.5m) depending on if the stair is ventilated?

It would not be appropriate to try to bring the premises up to current building regs standards but any recommendations should be proportionate to the risks presented.

It is likely that the premises would have been constructed to CP3 chapter IV part 1 and this standard would have advocated a stay put policy.  It would also have required flats to have an internal entrance lobby with doors to the lounge, kitchen and bedrooms being fire doors.
Once you have formed an assessment of the above you should be able to determine if the removal of the doors in question is acceptable.

Offline Mar62

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2012, 08:42:51 AM »
Thankyou for your replies. Much obliged. Is it still possible to obtain copies of CP3 chapter IV part 1?
Max distance from furthest flat door to entrance to the stairway is approx 3 mts. There is no smoke ventilation within the stairway.
I have not yet been able to gain access to any flat or have any information as to whether there were once entrance lobbies within the flats. the lobbies where the flat entrances are could be ventilated very easily.
It is a purpose built block.
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?

Offline nearlythere

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2012, 09:28:58 AM »
BC will have plans and you can have access to them under FOI, with your clients written permission. I have spent some time examining a file in a BC office regarding a block of flats. They can't refuse you access to any info they have on it.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Mar62

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2012, 09:36:02 AM »
Lovely thanks..
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?

Offline William 29

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2012, 10:28:05 AM »
Thankyou for your replies. Much obliged. Is it still possible to obtain copies of CP3 chapter IV part 1?  YES try the BSI but it will cost you a few quid.  Although I don't think you need it.  The info in the new flats guide will be enough look at Appendix 1.

Max distance from furthest flat door to entrance to the stairway is approx 3 mts.  Sounds ok.

There is no smoke ventilation within the stairway.  Is there any venting at all in the corridors?

I have not yet been able to gain access to any flat or have any information as to whether there were once entrance lobbies within the flats. the lobbies where the flat entrances are could be ventilated very easily.  I think you need to establish this.It is a purpose built block.

Offline Mar62

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2012, 11:09:12 AM »
Hi William, thanks for your replies. I'm just going through the guide at moment and reading app 1.
Yes the lobbies can be vented very easily by two small balcony doors either side of the lobby. The balconies do not lead anywhere.
I am going to try first and speak to one of the committee members about the entrance lobbies, who has apparently lived there since they were built. But reading app 1 it does seem to describe the type of layout of the premises very closely.
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?

Offline Mar62

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Re: removal of 1960's style doors within ground floor communal area
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2012, 05:09:46 PM »
All resolved. Thanks to all who commented!
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?