Author Topic: Dorguard (Read 14910 times)

cbfire999 · « **on:** June 24, 2006, 01:24:01 PM »

What are peoples views on "Dorguards"? A member of a local Fire Brigade has told a local Hotelier that they do not like them! This was during a conversation regarding Risk Assesments for their Hotel.

Do you think their personnal opinions should be given rather than proffesional views when discussing Assesments. Surely, if these devices conform to current regulations they have to be better than a wedge or extinguisher to hold open a Fire door!!

Your views please.

PhilB · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2006, 03:18:26 PM »

I agree that a Dorgaurd is better than wedging a door open. I also see no problem with a professional with adequate training, knowledge and experience giving an expert opinion. What may be questionable is the competence of the member of the fire brigade!

The responsible person must demonstrate that he has carried out a suitable & sufficient assessment and provided reasonable fire precautions as a result of that assessment. That process must involve due process, and that may involve seeking advice.

The point you make is a good one and demonstrates that the FSO of the future will have to justify his opinion rather than rely on phrases like "because the guide says so".

kurnal · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2006, 03:25:56 PM »

I agree with you Cbfire999. Subject to a risk assessment- to cover door mass, closing forces and fire alarm audibility sufficent to trigger the unit, I would recommend them on any door that is otherwise likely to be wedged open. I would prefer a swing free closer or magnetic device to the dorguard because of the physical interface to the alarm which will always be the most reliable way of doing it. But if thats not reasonably practicable then its a dorguard every time for me. Plus it has the advantage over a magnetic of allowing the door to be held partially open, as many people seem to prefer for their care home bedroom door.

The only caveat I suppose is that I would not support their use in a building with only a manual alarm system.
I note that there is now a dorgard model that is triggered by a radio signal from a transmitter fixed near to a sounder. But this arrangement appears to lose out on cost effectiveness to the other solutions.

Graeme · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2006, 01:43:40 PM »

good and bad experience of them.

I have found that some owners of sites have fitted them off their own backs using the in house handy man.The result with doors every where being wedged open and not enough dba levels to operate them all.

Others leave a big score and get stuck in the carpets.

But on the other hand the ones i have seen that have been fitted well and in near loaction of a fire sounder work well.
A good option if cabling is impossible.

i think i have mentioned some where a few months ago that they can be triggered by sounds other than a fire sounder.

johnv · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2006, 04:17:46 PM »

Quote from: Graeme Millar

good and bad experience of them.

I have found that some owners of sites have fitted them off their own backs using the in house handy man.The result with doors every where being wedged open and not enough dba levels to operate them all.

Others leave a big score and get stuck in the carpets.

But on the other hand the ones i have seen that have been fitted well and in near loaction of a fire sounder work well.
A good option if cabling is impossible.

i think i have mentioned some where a few months ago that they can be triggered by sounds other than a fire sounder.

We had a Dorguard fitted to the door of our staff dining room. The unexpected side effect is that it also reacts to loud continuous noise and the door closes very rapidly which has led to reduction in the noise made by staff in the vicinity.

shaunmckeever · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2006, 11:04:33 PM »

Have you considered the use of the Salamander Wire Free Magnetic Door Holder?

I have only just become aware of this product and would be interested to hear others views or comments.

David Rooney · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2006, 11:06:23 PM »

Pardon my ignorance, I've googled it but can't find it..... what is it???

..... sorry just found it in FSE.... looks interesting..... need to ponder.......

novascot · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2006, 01:49:47 PM »

For everyone's information The Scottish Executive guidance for Offices and Shops Page 68 gives guidance on this type of device.

Markbr · « **Reply #8 on:** November 15, 2006, 11:02:03 PM »

Hi, I took a stand at the Care Show in Bournemouth to demonstrate my invention for holding open fire doors and was embarrassed by the number of people that came on the stand berating Dorgard.

Before you fit them do try to speak to existing users about the problems. Note the latest guidance from the Government stipulates that they must not be use on escape routes in Residential care facilites and only elshwere if a specific risk assesment has been conducted.

To keep within the rules of the forum I can't give you the name of my alternative product here but it costs only slightly more that Dorgard and is only hlaf the cost if you look at it over a 10 year lifecycle.

Look me up on the forum members list and you can find a link there.

jokar · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2006, 09:33:14 AM »

Johnv. dorguard X may solve your problems.

ps · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2006, 11:23:45 AM »

any problems with using properly fitted dorguards on doors opening onto protected escape routes/stairwells etc?

jokar · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2006, 11:54:04 AM »

Better than wedging them open. The FRA will decide the practicality of it.

Ken Taylor · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:17:42 PM »

There have been discussions on this subject here and on the IOSH forum in the past so you could trawl the archives for further opinions.

I would prefer mag-holders connected to integrated detection and alarm systems but we need to consider what's the best option for the particular door, premises and client - particularly in terms of being 'reasonably practicable' - in addition to the various bits of published guidance. They are certainly better than wedges - but I have found them damaged and hanging off doors due to poor fitting, inadequate doors, impact by trolleys, wheelchairs, etc. Risk assessment needs to take these aspects into consideration in addition to the purely fire protection dimension.

Bob Doc · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2006, 12:53:27 AM »

Hi Guys the debate moves on but so does technology and thats why the RRFSO and guidance talks about keeping up to date and not being locked in time. At some stage we need to considr what is the next thing coming onto the market that will replace exisiting products via new technology. In the case of hold open devices Dogard captured the imagination (of some of us but not all!!) I have just seen one from Geofire that looks interesting, easy to retro fit and is more discreet that Dorgard. Works on Radio as well so I urge you to have a look at their website, technology moves but but sometimes we dont, or just dont get it.
Bottom line from me though is always the start point has to be a fire door is only a fire door when it is closed and set up against its jamb,
Regards
Bob Doc

Ken Taylor · « **Reply #14 on:** November 24, 2006, 12:05:10 AM »

They look interesting, Bob. I have never seen one. There is the usual concern about radio signals. Has anyone here any experience of these yet?

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Author Topic: Dorguard (Read 14910 times)

Graeme