Santa's grotto

[shaunmckeever]

Christmas is fast approaching and it won't be long before shopping centres will have their santa's grottos. Can anyone point me the right direction for information on santas grottos in shopping centres. I'm sure  I recall seeing something about them somewhere.

Thanks

[shaunmckeever]

96 viewings and no responses. It seems I must have been wrong.

[Gasmeter]

Sorry Shaun, I remember some guidance ages ago, but it was just a one off produced by the local FRS; I'm not aware of any current guidance at all.

[John Webb]

Shaun, I'm not clear if you wish to give people advice or if you are involved in enforcing fire safety. If the latter by November when they are likely to appear we'll be working under the new system - could you ask to see the risk assessment that they've made prior to constructing and using the grotto?
I vaguely recall the Home Office issuing advice around 10 years ago with calls for use of class 0 or 1 Surface spread of flame and two entrances/exits and minimum intrusion into potential escape routes. Sorry it's not more than this. Is the info now buried on the DCLG website somewhere?

[shaunmckeever]

John I am giving advice to the shopping centre management.

I used to be an enforcing officer (based at St. Albans once). I vaguely recall some discussion/informaton about santa's grottos but I can't recall if it was in house or national guidance. I'm guessing that it must have been in house otherwise I'm sure there would have been a greater response.

I am aware of a fire authority who have issued an improvement notice to a shopping centre because a mobile retail unit was placed in the mall without due consideration to the effect on the sprinkler system and smoke control system. I don't want to fall into the same trap.

Thanks
Shaun

[kurnal]

Shaun
As you are probably aware there is some very brief guidance in BS5588 part 10 but really it comes down to limiting the fire loading in the malls and considering the effect on the means of escape.
Preferably putting such things as the grotto in a vacant shop unit if one exists. Then it becomes much easier!
Since so many centres  are specific fire engineered solutions it really is necessary to find out what the maximum permissible fire loading in the mall is for that particular location.

If the grotto  and all its effects are completely non combustible and does not obstruct the means of escape then there should be no problem. Thats a good goal to set and to work back from. The same applies to decorations thoughout the malls.

Take a look at this link
http://www.westyorksfire.gov.uk/new/fireSafety/pans/5316.htm

[messy]

Shaun

I'll try and send you the London FB guidance note, but I believe it is a similar version to West Yorks posted above

[wee brian]

A lot will depend on the design of the centre and in particular the smoke control system.

Most Centres will be desinged to deal with a 5mw steady state fire. If the Grotto is in the Mall and there is no sprinkler protection then there is the potential that you may get a fire which is too big for the system to handle.

Saying that if its a two storey mall and the grotto is not under a balcony then you could probably cope with something bigger. Somebody will need to do the sums.

[shaunmckeever]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate your replies and the link to west yorks is very useful.

Shaun

[Ashley Wood]

Shaun,

I recall about 10 years ago a Santa's grotto being fitted with a high pressure water mist system. It was a cylinder based system designed to discharge for 10 minutes, as the grotto is only temporary the system could be taken down and stored until the following year.

[messy]

How about employing an off duty FF as Santa who has access to a variety of extingushers disguised a toys in Rudolph's sleigh .

It's just an idea and it is Friday!

[Chris Houston]

How about employing an off duty FF as Santa who has access to a variety of extingushers disguised a toys in Rudolph's sleigh .

It's just an idea and it is Friday!

Congratulations on your 200th post being your best suggestion yet!