communal areas in residential properties

[Tom Sutton]

I received the following question today any views.

I have a question about the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety Order 2005) which is soon to become law.
 
I live in a property (managed by a residents association) where there are two different communal staircases which allow access to the flats. One of these serves six flats and has an elevator and the other serves three flats (no elevator). I am uncertain whether the incoming legislation applies to staircases which are used for entry and exit or whether they are considered distinct from what the legislation refers to as "communal areas in residential properties".
 
I would be most grateful if you can advise and make reference to documentation on the internet which could clear up my uncertainty.

[kurnal]

All communal areas in my view. The flat threshold is the dividing line but In my view the flat front door and the heat detector in the flat lobby also contribute to the safety of the communal areas so in some respects  the RRO does reach inside the private flat (all in my opinion of course!)

[saddlers]

Approved Document B describes the common areas with flats as being "from the entrance doors of dwellings to a final exit" and in my opinion this would be a valid definition for these purposes.

[kurnal]

But other people may rely on the integrity of your door to keep the fire inside your flat so it does not affect the common escape routes. If you put a big letter flap in there it may no longer be safe to stay put?
Approved doc B covers the design and construction phase and is valid until the building is completed ready for occupation. Then the FS Order takes over.  I accept it is a grey area though.

[wee brian]

This isone thing in the order that is quiet clear- just check the definition of a domestic premises

[kurnal]

It says this:

“domestic premises" means premises occupied as a private dwelling (including any garden, yard, garage, outhouse, or other appurtenance of such premises which is not used in common by the occupants of more than one such dwelling);

I must be thick or somethin- cos it aint clear to me Wee B!!
Which side of the flat front door- inside or outside face-  is the demarcation line between common areas and domestic? I still say the inside face because without door integrity the common areas cannot be safe. Please enlighten me!!

[jokar]

NO differences to that experienced with HMO's, the front door to a flat has always had a question mark against it but has always formed part of the escape route.  Be careful, the shared accommodation of residentail premises also get caught in this ie. students have their own lockable rooms but the shared parts, lounge, bathroom etc come under the Order

[val]

Jokar,
I think you will find that the enforcers guidance will definitely exclude shared houses from the Order. I have my doubts though that this view is defendable. They are clearly HMO's under the Housing Act and it would be tricky to have a different definition under the Order.

[wee brian]

Word is that - The bedrooms will be down to the EHO and the rest of an HMO wil be under the Order. I guess itll mean joint inspections - so you can share the door!!!

Somebody did suggest that the Housing authority should be th enforcer of the Order in flats and HMOs but thats been dropped.

[Pip]

It says this:

“domestic premises" means premises occupied as a private dwelling (including any garden, yard, garage, outhouse, or other appurtenance of such premises which is not used in common by the occupants of more than one such dwelling);

I must be thick or somethin- cos it aint clear to me Wee B!!
Which side of the flat front door- inside or outside face-  is the demarcation line between common areas and domestic? I still say the inside face because without door integrity the common areas cannot be safe. Please enlighten me!!

our advice is that access to private dwellings may be requested (article 27 (1) at any reasonable time) if necerssary for inspecting level of protection afforded to common escape routes.

[kurnal]

Thats useful, thanks Pip.
However I wonder what you would do if they refuse to give you access?

Just another aside I wonder if a landlord or agent, as a diligent  responsible person, has any means of securing access to a privately leased or rented flat? Clearly if the tenancy agreement allows it they must, but I guess the private occupier of a flat has no duty under the FSO2005  to co-operate with the responsible person once they pass from the common areas through their own front door?

[Pip]

Well, I can exercise my powers of entry, and if they do not let me in after asking nicely I could inform them that they could be prosecuted-27(1)d & 32 (2) d&e-what I could not do is force entry-I can only use that  power under the F&R Act under different circumstances-not for inspections!

[greg]

Kurnal,

Reference the flat owner and co operation article 17 (2) and (3) deal with it