Fire Doors - help please

[Gary Howe]

Does anyone have any information I could beg, borrow and steal on fire doors, I am specifically interested in:-

Intumscent strips and smoke seals, when they should be fitted?

Idendtifcation of fire doors and their respective ratings

When is FD20 acceptable as opposed to FD30?

Current applicable standard for testing

Thanks

[kurnal]

Theres a whole wealth of information on the web Gary- try a google search on certifire, BM Trada, Sealmaster, English Heritage,

Envirograph  and Sealmaster to name just two do a full range of leaflets and information free to download or if you ring them they will send you a whole bag full of info and samples.


20 minute doors-  only for smoke control doors subdividing corridors as far as I recall.

Email me if you get stuck.

[Peter Wilkinson]

FD20 are also used in certain residential situations, such as when rooms open onto protected lobbies, or for doors leading onto stairwells rising from ground to second floor.

[wee brian]

Theres a good publication produced by the ASDMA - you'll have to buy it though

[Auntie LIn]

Yes, there is a superb publication by ASDMA (not that I'm biased of course!) and, contrary to what Wee Brian has said, it is now available absolutely free of charge.   It's downloadable from the ASDMA website www.asdma.com or, if you ask nicely(!) and send me your address, I'll put a hard copy version in the post for you.

[kurnal]

Does it say anything about selecting doorsets for use with pressurisation?

Is the full publication available FOC Lin? I have seen the two links to the installing and maintaining leaflets and the lnk to the contents page of the full document but not the book itself.

[stewbow]

I have spoken on many occasions to our local FOs over the past 12 months regarding doors that were upgraded some 30 years ago. These doors were fire boarded on one side and give a 30 minute rating. For the past couple of years I have witnessed these doors being replaced time and time again under the HMO registration scheme, presumably under the direction of the local council (after taking advice from the FO).
Now, with the RRO eating into the pockets of hotel and guest house owners, the FOs have agreed to let these fireboarded doors remain, providing that they have the intumescent seals fitted, and have a L2 fire Alarm fitted.

Is this the same across the country?

Stuart, North Wales

[Auntie LIn]

Sorry chaps - it's just been pointed out that my webmaster is pants - he's put the two short guides on the site but not the full Best Practice Guide.   Until I can beat him into submission, if you want a printed copy, do please send me your address and I'll post one.

[kurnal]

Stewbow
I dont think its  even the same across a Brigade or even a single area fire safety office.
Each Fire Authority should have a policy on acceptable standards. It is likely to be risk based. HMOs are high risk- all the statistics prove that. Some of the smaller hotels are more like private houses and others have good means of escape. L2 is probably a better risk control measure in these. ( They  should have both of course- but Rome wasn't built in a day. They are probably caught in the FP Act time capsule)  
 But if we are talking single staircase, dead end conditions, doors to rooms opening direct into staircases then proper fire doors are needed.  

Horses for courses as usual.

[Pip]

Yes, there is a superb publication by ASDMA (not that I'm biased of course!) and, contrary to what Wee Brian has said, it is now available absolutely free of charge.   It's downloadable from the ASDMA website www.asdma.com or, if you ask nicely(!) and send me your address, I'll put a hard copy version in the post for you.

only some leaflets and the 'contents'-not the whole enchalada-unless I missed it!

[Ken Taylor]

I don't think it's 'the same across the country' yet, Stewbow - judging only by the published LA requirements for HMOs.

[kurnal]

Thanks fr the book Lin- it is absolutely excellent and is showing me how little I knew. I always thought graphite seals were low pressure and have speciified it for variable gaps. And that the silicate seals were the hydroscopic ones not  the ammonium phosphate. Oh dear less entertainment for you in the future!!!!

Hey its a bit picky tho on the gap at the threshold- I dont think I have ever seen one less than about 8mm but we should be looking for about 3???

[Peter Wilkinson]

Both the 8 and 3mm limits do have relevance- it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

In order to comply with BS8214 Code of practice for Fire door assemblies with non-metallic leaves, clause19.7, unless supported by test evidence from the manufacturer, no fire door can be undercut so as to create a threshold gap in excess of 8mm when measured from the finished floor level.  

But, if effective smoke sealing is required, the threshold gap should not exceed 3mm at any point.

[Fishy]

Threshold gaps - for fire resistance purposes go with the door suppliers' recommendations or BS 8214, whichever is the more demanding.  

My personal opinion is that the threshold gap size won't influence smoke movement unless it's VERY tight - you'll get the same amount of smoke through a 3mm gap as an 8mm; it's velocity through the smaller gap will be greater than through the larger.  Additionally, if the doors are on the room where the fire orginates, you'll get a small hurricane sucked under the door towards the fire, so smoke won't be leaking out of the compartment via this route.  I've seen this during research tests - the flow can be so strong that it howls through the gap!