Rail Infra Structure(Permanent way)

[Andyfire]

It would appear that the above falls under the RRO (fire safety) by virtue of the fact that it does not meet the requirements of Article 6(1).
What guide would be applicable to work carried out on the permanent way.
We have a lot of engineering work being carried out during day light and night hours involving large numbers of workers.Have not seen any FRA's yet but will start looking for them as due to the number of fires on the rail infra structure it would be deemed as a workplace which is High risk.
Perhaps someone might be able to guide to any publication that deals with M.O.E's on railways etc.

Regards

Andy

[Peter Wilkinson]

Maybe 'Guide 11 - Transport premises and facilities' will deal with your queries once it is published?

[Andyfire]

Peter

was thinking that myself but given the info coming of the website i don't think it will cover it.

From a M.O.E and even a Raising the alarm point of view to FRA a part of the track that could be a mile away from any gate(That is Locked) and has to contend with limited clearences, traction currents, trains themselves am pretty sure it would nigh impossible to come up with a suitable FRA.

[wee brian]

I cant see a trackside fire putting anybody at risk unless they decide to jump in it.

[Andyfire]

Appreciate the comment Wee Brian

however what you have to take into account is that no matter if it is one person on a track inspection or the more normal gangs of 20 + that work a night shift in enginnering hours the problem remains the same.

Due to the layout of the track and the fact the trains are still running a trackside fire would seriously place a person at risk as the M.O.E is comprised if for example and this is the norm escape is single direction to a place of safety(why? Due to limited clearence, train running, third rail, tunnels etc). Smoke as you know travles a fair distance especially in deep cuttings and long straights and would quite easily impede any escape.

As I am beginning to look into the problem it would appear that it is much more of a risk than first thought. Network rail employ a registration scheme and to date approx 170,000 people have track safety cards and given the amount of fires on the rail infra structure it is safe to assume that this a high risk.

In addition the staff recieve intensive training before going onto the rail infra structure and therefore you can deem these competent people and yet approx 10 people a year die through non fire incidents. This points to a high risk industry in which am convinced that a fairly large trackside fire whould have fatal consequences.

[AnthonyB]

Could a trackside fire depending on the scenerio pose a risk to trains & the occupants? (including goods trains that sometimes carry hazardous goods?)

The old BR Fire Manuals include chapters on track fires & the precautions & procedures therein, certainly the provision of decent PFE is important to get in a good first aid attack

[John Webb]

I have a copy of the 1989 edition of the LUL Fire Manual (Rule Book Appendix Eight) bought from a second-hand bookstall at a recent model/toy fair. This, perhaps not surprisingly, concentrates on station and tunnel fires. There is nothing specifically about trackside fires in the open air. All the manual does is to give advice on stopping fires from starting and extinguishing them quickly if they do start.

I note from experiencing many trips on preserved steam railways that the crews seem well-trained to come to a halt if they see a lineside fire and to tackle it promptly with the fireman's shovel and beaters from the guard's van. One or two also keep 45gall/200 litre drums alongside the track filled with water, as I recall the Southern Region of BR did on Hungerford Bridge in the Summer months.

But otherwise I regret I cannot find anything else about lineside fires.

[kurnal]

An interesting thread.

Here is one instance where I think there is a cast iron case for Firefighters carrying out operational duties being relevant persons. If they were, then the responsible person ( railtrack)  would be obliged under their own risk assessment to ensure that the firefighters were not exposed to the risk of being hit by a moving train whilst carrying out firefighting duties.

In most situations the activities of firefighters are not within the sphere of control of the responsible person and so it is probably appropriate that they be excluded from the definition of relevant persons. But in this case, once committing to an offensive tactical mode, only railtrack can ensure the firefighters  safety by stopping trains.

[AnthonyB]

I have several copies of the BR Fire manual from the late 60's to the late 80's in our museum if anyone wants their take on trackside fires.

The loss of nationalisation lost the BR Fire Service & with it some good systems & knowledge it seems having had involvement with BR(PB) properties over the years