Holiday Cottages

[CivvyFSO]

I too doubt whether holiday cottages would fall under the FSO, as for instance, a group of students sharing a house for a few terms wouldn't, so why should a family of four (and a dog) attract such attention???

Correct me if I am wrong, but I would have thought that the students example would constitute a HMO in the proper definition of it, (unrelated persons, shared facilities, truly a "House in Multiple Occupation") and as such would be enforced by the local authority. (FRS would technically have the common areas, but where I am it is policy the let environmental health deal with the whole building unless we are aware of dangerous conditions.)

The difference with the holiday let is that the people there would be generally one family so would not constitute a HMO by definition. It is more like someone mentioned earlier, like any family renting a place to live, albeit for a short time.

[John Webb]

Just returned from a 2-week holiday in Yorkshire in a self-catering cottage. The Letting Agency insists on certain items being present - SDs fire blanket and extinguisher. They also provide a 'What to do in case of fire' sign, though not compliant with BS 5499. Every hirer is also sent an A5 booklet with detailed instructions on what to do in case of fire, fire prevention and medical emergencies when they book the holiday.

I'd be interested to know what the statistics are for ordinary domestic versus self-catering.

[bolt]

Holiday cottages dont appear to come under HMO as far as i can tell. Lets check the definition;

"An entire house or flat which is let to 3 or more tenants who form 2 or more households and who share a kitchen, bathroom or toilet. (For a definition of household see the relevant question under faqs.)
A house which has been converted entirely into bedsits or other non-self-contained accommodation and which is let to 3 or more tenants who form two or more households and who share kitchen, bathroom or toilet facilities.
A converted house which contains one or more flats which are not wholly self contained  (ie the flat does not contain within it a kitchen, bathroom and toilet) and which is occupied by 3 or more tenants who form two or more households.
A building  which is converted entirely into self-contained flats if the conversion did not  meet the standards of the 1991 Building Regulations and more than one-third of the flats are let on short-term tenancies.
In order to be an HMO the property must be used as the tenants’ only or main residence and it should be used solely or mainly to house tenants. Properties let to students and migrant workers will be treated as their only or main residence and the same will apply to properties which are used as domestic refuges."

So in summary for a family staying in a holiday cottage its not their main residence.

They are not tenants either.

Sometimes 3 or 4 families may share facilities in a very large country house but they are still not tenants and its not their main residence becuase they are on holiday for a few weeks and have another property that they normally live in.

BUT you let out your holiday cottage to students either for attending school/university or even say you have French students attending for summer holidays and they are sharing facilities then it would probably be classed as an HMO under the students clause. Afterall, students are in the high risk group.

[Tall Paul]

The legal advice that we have recieved is that the holiday cottage does not fall within the scope of the Order.  This is based on the fact that holiday cottages fall within the interpretation of 'domestic premises' in Article 2.

I'd be interested in the approach taken by Devon or Cornwall FRS in this respect.

[bolt]

It was never the intention to target these places. The key as i already stated is this line.

"In order to be an HMO the property must be used as the tenants’ only or main residence and it should be used solely or mainly to house tenants"

That means B & B's are not HMO's either unless they have tenants. Only lets them off the licensing side of things though all other fire control and RA apply.

 Some do though,  i know places where 3 or 4 rooms are typical short stay holiday rooms  but there is a couple living on the top floor permanant and paying rent to the landlady.  Thats then an HMO im sure but will take time to find all this places.

[kurnal]

The English Tourist Board are making it a condition of grading that a recorded fire risk assessment is in place for holiday lets- at least that is the case in the Peak District.

The Trading Standards department and Fire Service locally both take the view that holiday cottages are not domestic premises.

The  sleeping accommodation guide itself says it applies to holiday chalets but then it excludes domesic premises occupied as a single private dwelling. Confusing.

Certainly Trading Standards take the view that those letting accommodation in the course of a business, where the supply of the accommodation includes the supply of goods ie furniture and domestic appliances must comply with consumer protection and  health and safety regulations.

[bolt]

I think thats makes perfect sense to me. If you allow others to stay in your property then it not a "single private dwelling" ie consist of a family living there permantly.
its a dwellinghouse used as a business venture and they should be made to comply to everything the law can throw at them including CORGI, PAT tests, RA etc. Becuase they are subjecting other people to the inherent risks of their home. A the very least i think you could expect to see smoke detectors, a fire blanket in the kitchen and the odd extinguisher would show they made an effort together a with safety welcome pack on arrivial.  While the FRS can target the common areas remember under the HHSRS the LA have the powers to enter any "dwellinghouse" property presumably this would only ever happen if someone stayed in a shocking bad holiday house and complained it was a death trap.

[The Colonel]

Kurnal

Out of interest I have just contacted the Quality section of English Tourisum and they confirmed that as part of the grading system they will be asking for a fire risk assessment for holiday lets. It would appear that they are acting upon advice from DCLG  which has been received recently. Had a look at DCLG site but no joy just the usual documents, if anyone has further info it could be interesting.

I have heard through one FRS that some FRS are inspecting holiday lets as part of their inspection samples and asking for improvements. Can come as quite a shock to some owners who had work done under private accomodation through building control to now find out that as busness they are being asked to do more work

[The Colonel]

Just as an update I have had email confirmation that as part of the assessment for grading of a premise a valid fire risk assessment is required. Also their scheme reassess on an annual basis and owners would need to ensure that they have a valid fire risk assessment when the inspector payes their annual visit.

So even those already on the scheme will need to have a risk assessment in order to continue partisipating

[val]

Rosemary Everton has written an article for the IFE magazine on this subject. I would never dream of challenging her legal thought process and after reading the argument, I think she says that holiday cottages DO come under the Order.
By using similar arguments I think that this principle could be extended to a much wider array of 'apparently' domestic premises than was first envisaged.

[wee brian]

I dont have a problem with them being covered (I always thought they would be) but it's the way that they are dealt with that is important. If the thing is just a house then there is no need to provide much more in the way of fire precautions than would be provided in any other house.

OK the occupants will be a little less familiar with the premises, but its only a house so I cant see peoplegetting lost.  Mains interlinked smoke alarms escape windows or a protected stair, job done.

[kurnal]

Having  some  queries from the small B&Bs - formerly considered non cert hotels where the fire service is now looking at fire doors to rooms, protected routes etc.
Personally I make an assessment and try and determine whether the B&B is more akin to a single private dwelling with guests,  or a hotel. I reckon the level of risk is often lower than the bigger houses let out as holiday lets- I know of one that sleeps 12.  

I think in some small, supervised B&Bs where the owners are always present, where guests are vetted and the accent is on a home from home setting then the standards apertaining to a private dwelling may still be justified- including the retention of an open plan stair and opening windows in first floor rooms.

Have put forward a couple on this basis

[fred]

Rosemary Everton has written an article for the IFE magazine on this subject.

It's been published in the July 2007 Fire Prevention and Fire Engineers Journal - page 21

[BB]

Intersting view from rosemary but still no clearer are we could swing either way. Could a hfsc be sufficient?

[PhilB]

........... we could swing either way. Could a hfsc be sufficient?

Not sure about swinging either way, but whatever floats your boat!!!


What is an hfsc???