Holiday Cottages

[robara]

Hi, hope someone can help with a query on fire escapes.
I have a two bed cottage that I use for holiday let, the staircase comes down into the living room with no dividing wall between them. There is no fire escape from the first floor. How will this be affected by the  new regs.

[kurnal]

Generally the accepted standard would be to ensure that there is a window from the bedrooms that will open and allow escape or rescue- opening needs to be around 600mmx450mm ideally and mains powered interlinked smoke alarms.
The full guidance document to the new order is available for free download - see guides and legislation links above.

[Mr. P]

robara, do you let through an agency?  If yes, they will be in a good position for advising you also.  If no, consider asking a reputable one by saying you are interested in using them.

[TullyM]

Where in the guide does it allow for window escape from sleeping accommodation? My authority are just about to start delving into B&B and holiday let terratory and intend to enforce the guide as detailed on page 97 i.e provide a protected stair leading directly to a final exit. The result will probably lead to a large number of premises going out of business.

[CivvyFSO]

ABD allows window escapes for dwellings, but not in a way that you can pick and choose to avoid protecting a staircase.

"Enforce the guide"? Thats the sort of comment that will raise a few eyebrows.

[firelawmac]

Civvy FSO,

I agree!!! Does this not just re enforce the fact that not all enforcing authorities actually truely understand the ethos of the new legislation!!

Further to that out of interest do holiday lets come under the RRFSO at all? If they do, does that not mean that any rented domestic dwelling does as well? Or is it as I suspect that due to the irregular occupancy it does come under the order?

Confusion is rife!!!

Any help will be welcomed.

[CivvyFSO]

Holiday cottages etc would come under 'domestic premises' since they are actually occupied as a private dwelling by one family unit. So I would say any self contained holiday accommodation would not be controlled by RRFSO. Common areas, yes. i.e. Shared means of escape from seperate units.

Put more than one family unit in it and you can technically call it a HMO. But would we be bothered? This is not what the change in 'what constitutes a HMO' was designed to include.

[firelawmac]

Thanks, that makes sence!

[TullyM]

According to legal advice holiday lets do fall within the FSO as, depending on the length of occupancy, they are not dewllings. If there is only temporary residence of a premises that will be deemed evidence that it is not the residents dwelling. One for the courts, should any authority be brave enough to take it that far.

[jokar]

And there I was thinking that Guidance was just that.  How do you enforce guidance.  Enforce the law by all means and all that states is for an FRA to be undertaken and the outcomes acted upon.  The guidance is just one method of dealing with a particular premises type.  The Fire safety Duties are there for the RP not the enforcers.

[firelawmac]

There is obviously a bit of confusion here! Ok so the HM Govt guides have been refered to by the judiciary in relation to various aspects particularly fire detection, but all that does is reinforce the fact that the guides if followed are deemed to be 'Best practice' in complying with the requirements of the FSO, they can I suppose be deemed quasi - legal in a similar way to the HSE guides, this does not mean that it is law to follow them, and if the requirements are met some other way then the standards should be the same or better than in the HM Govt guides.

Sorry if I have just ventured into the realms of the sucking of the egg lesson but I only wish to add some clarity to the subject.

[Big A]

Where in the guide does it allow for window escape from sleeping accommodation? My authority are just about to start delving into B&B and holiday let terratory and intend to enforce the guide as detailed on page 97 i.e provide a protected stair leading directly to a final exit. The result will probably lead to a large number of premises going out of business.

Are holiday lets high risk, then? Presumably the larger B&Bs have been known to you for a while (FPA and WPRs).

[messy]

. The result will probably lead to a large number of premises going out of business.

Tully: Are you saying that this is inevitable, desirable or perhaps an aim of your FRS?

What happened to the enforcement concordat and 'reasonableness'.

Your FRS would do well to utilise FINDS before setting out on this foolish project to see what other FRS's have experienced.

With regards to protected staircases discharging into a room rather that a final exit, there's already history of a magistrates court uphoding an appeal of an enforcement notice and allowing a single staircase in a 4 storey pub (with accomodation over) to discharge into the high risk bar area.

I too doubt whether holiday cottages would fall under the FSO, as for instance, a group of students sharing a house for a few terms wouldn't, so why should a family of four (and a dog) attract such attention???

[Pip]

I know our brigade is looking at this issue,quickly realising that if the guide was followed then an awful lot of small B&B's would close,so are now working on an alternative strategy.Don't know the detail,stuck up my own tower at ivory tower at the moment.

[Big A]

. The result will probably lead to a large number of premises going out of business.

Tully: Are you saying that this is inevitable, desirable or perhaps an aim of your FRS?

What happened to the enforcement concordat and 'reasonableness'.

Your FRS would do well to utilise FINDS before setting out on this foolish project to see what other FRS's have experienced.

With regards to protected staircases discharging into a room rather that a final exit, there's already history of a magistrates court uphoding an appeal of an enforcement notice and allowing a single staircase in a 4 storey pub (with accomodation over) to discharge into the high risk bar area.
I too doubt whether holiday cottages would fall under the FSO, as for instance, a group of students sharing a house for a few terms wouldn't, so why should a family of four (and a dog) attract such attention???

Unless it's a smoking beagle
=)