RTC Training

[Andy Cole]

Does anybody know where I can get hold of some information or training packages on the restraint systems used in vehicles?
I am particulary keen to get information on how to disable Airbags!

Any help would be appreciated!

Andy

[Mike Buckley]

Try the people who make the vehicles.

[messy]

Andy: Do you intend to disable airbags at the scene of an RTC?

[Paul]

Andy this is as long as it is short, try and disbale them on a BMW 7 series!!


  I do have some info that I could dig out for you if you tell me what it is your after.

[scott]

try http://www.fireservice.co.uk/downloads/fsdocuments.php
BMW and Merc rescue manuals.

[Andy Cole]

try http://www.fireservice.co.uk/downloads/fsdocuments.php
BMW and Merc rescue manuals.

Thanks Scott,
This is the sort of thing I meant!.

Sorry if my original post wasn't very clear, What I am trying to do is ascertain what sort of information is available to us out there and what sort of training other FF's have had?

The way I understand it at the minute is if we roll up to an RTC Pers trapped before we do any cutting we are supposed to (where possible) strip the interior trim of the panel we intend to cut if we suspect undeployed airbags may be fitted to the vehicle looking for a bright yellow wiring loom, what I am not 100% sure of is what action we take having found this yellow wire!!

As Psmith quite rightly says "try to disable them on a 7 series BMW" well I hope the situation doesn't arise but what if it does? is there a way of doing it? I know they don't have just one battery fitted so disconnecting a battery isn't the answer I'm also told that some systems use capaciators so even if you do manage to disconnect all the batteries you still haven't disabled them!

At the minute I assume if we come across this problem we have three options:

1) Reasses the situation and devise another method of extrication

2) Use any knowledge availiable to us to disarm the airbag (this may sound stupid but I have actuallly been to an incident and someone on the crew has telephoned a friend who was a mechanic for the paticular make of vehicle  to find out how to disarm them! - it worked too, and she only had a broken ankle in the end!!)

3) Proceed as normal exercising extreme caution and at great danger to everybody in the vicinity.


If antone has recieved alternative training I'd be intrested to know, that was my point basically!

Thank you
Andy

Incidentally Mike I'm told that part the problem is that the car manufacturers are not very forthcoming with this information for fear that other manufacturers may get hold of it!! Also much as I'd like to I don't really have the spare time to ask each individual manufacturer!! lol


Excuse the spelling!!

[docfin]

Andy Kent are currently looking at a portable information system which has the details of large numbers of vehicles and does I think have the kind of info you are looking at.
Try contacting the Kent Fire and Rescue ops services team and they may be able to assist.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Disconnecting the battery should render most airbags safe.

Following the protocol of trim removal is paramount as you don't want to chop through one!

[docfin]

Unfortunately this is not the case as many airbags can have a residual electrical supply (or even a separate supply) which remanes live even after the main veh battery has been disconnected. The best and safest precaution is still to keep out of the deployment path of the suspected airbag as much as possible, use an airbag safe device where appropriate and assume that all SRS etc are still live even after the battery has been cut.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

BMW's were notorious for holding a residual current if I recall.

You have to remember that technology has moved on somewhat and most devices will become inactive when disconnected.

I'm all for safety though and will always treat them as "live", that way, you can't go far wrong.

I think manufacturers are only too happy to give some information, even the dealers will help if approached inn the right way.
I organised some training at a Vauxhall dealer a couple of years ago for the watch I was on ....... they were happy to oblige and we found it really useful.

Always worth considering and using the resources in your area!!

[Andy Cole]

Really useful info guys cheers!

I have since been told that on a post 2005 Mercedes (05 plate) disconnecting the battrieS (note the use of the plural!!) will render the srs inactive. Pre 05 plate Mercs will hold a residual charge, an Engineer I spoke to suggested that disconnecting the battery then earthing the positive will effectively discharge the capacitors, this has obvious safety implications in as much as it will probably produce a spark, but it may be worth including in the DRA and if it is potentially the better option try it!!

I must stress that I haven't tried this and don't know of anyone who has so perhaps doing it on a drill would be a good idea just to check what actually happens!!

Andy