Author Topic: HMO FS Inspections. (Read 19760 times)

Tom Sutton · « **on:** December 05, 2006, 09:39:35 AM »

Local councils doing fire safety inspections in HMO`s is this correct I thought they come under RR(FS)O, at least the common parts.

PhilB · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2006, 09:45:41 AM »

Housing Act is most appropriate legislation so I think it is better for them to sort HMOs. Housing Act applies to the whole building. Fire Safety Order only applies to common parts.

The problem, in my opinion, is the rating system that they use. It benchmarks against ideal standards and for fire safety the benchmark is ADB, totally inappropriate for many HMOs.

Tom Sutton · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2006, 07:46:23 PM »

phil I agree with you I have just read the Housing (Fire Safety in Houses in Multiple Occupation) Order 1997 and apart from having to consult with the FRS it all up to the local housing authority.

jokar · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2006, 08:01:45 PM »

FRS need to set up protocols with the local authority to sort this out. many FRS will have HMO set as high risk due to the life safety issues and will reinspect quite regularly. The Housing Act 2004 is about licensing and the rting system. having applied, the licensee will have 5 years to do the work of which fire is a small part.

novascot · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2006, 12:13:47 AM »

I am not too sure about the requirements of the RRO and HMO's but The Fire (Scotland) Act 2005 says that any premises requiring a licence must have an FRA carried out.

Is the RRO different?

PhilB · « **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2006, 08:19:50 AM »

All premises except domestic premises require a fire risk assessment. Common parts of HMOs fall outside definition of domestic premises so are covered by the fire safety order and would require a risk assessment.

If the HMO needs a license, the prescribed information must be recorded.

Gets horribly complicated because to assess the safety of the common parts I would suggest you need to look in the rooms off those parts, but the order does not apply to them so there are no poweres of entry.

Best to leave it to Housing Officers but I agree with Jokar that protocols should be established. I know many FRS are working on agreed required standards with HOs.

Pip · « **Reply #6 on:** December 07, 2006, 02:09:23 PM »

'Gets horribly complicated because to assess the safety of the common parts I would suggest you need to look in the rooms off those parts, but the order does not apply to them so there are no poweres of entry.'

Article 27 (1) a suggests that an inspector can enter any premises for the purpose of carrying out the order

jokar · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:55:10 PM »

The Housing Authority have loads of powers, including entry into domestic dwellings, let them get on with it.

PhilB · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2006, 07:06:57 PM »

Quote from: Pip

Article 27 (1) a suggests that an inspector can enter any premises for the purpose of carrying out the order

Pip the order doesn't apply to domestic premises so there are no powers of entry. There is power for and only for Article 31 purposes i.e. prohibition or restriction.

norfolknchance · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2006, 07:40:52 AM »

The guidance document from RRO advocates a comprehensive fire alarm for most types of HMO, How would you feel about the FA engaging with a local authority to endorse / enforce the guidance recommendation. ie full detection spec in 15 storey block of flats? Have many of you got tower blocks of flats without fire alarms? If you have, are they not outside best practise guidance?
Sorry to many questions for submission, my real point is that RRO gives the fire authority powers, however LA's (under housing Act) police their own housing stock ( could be quite a political issue). Anyone got any experience on this type of scenario yet using RRO?

PhilB · « **Reply #10 on:** December 12, 2006, 08:19:23 AM »

Why would you want a full detection system in a 15 storey block of flats? If someone burns their toast on the 15th floor do you think there is a need to evacuate 15 floors of domestic premises?

AFD · « **Reply #11 on:** December 12, 2006, 08:35:16 AM »

The normal standard recommended in large blocks of flats ( apartments if you want to be posh ) is a bs5839 pt6 system in individual flats to alert occupier only and with a bs5839 pt1 system to protect/cover common circulation routes ( this usually would need a heat detector in the lobby/hall of each flat as part of an L3 system ).

jokar · « **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2006, 06:20:36 PM »

Get real, 60 minute structure, part 6 to alert the occupants, shut the door and call the FRS. Whatever is the point in an alarm system for a block of flats. Who is responsible for it, who resets it?

wee brian · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2006, 10:33:07 PM »

A block of flats isnt a HMO so there not a problem - The simple rule of thumb -again - is

self contained flats - self contained alarms.

Shared facilities (a HMO) shared alarm system.

As AFD rightly points out, if there is an automatic smoke vent then there will need to be some form of AFD in the common parts - this just operates the vents.

Pip · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2006, 10:48:46 AM »

Quote from: PhilB

Quote from: Pip
Article 27 (1) a suggests that an inspector can enter any premises for the purpose of carrying out the order
Pip the order doesn't apply to domestic premises so there are no powers of entry. There is power for and only for Article 31 purposes i.e. prohibition or restriction.

Yes, I understand what you are staying, but there used to be power under the FP act to enter a domestic property to ensure that it did not impact on the 'certificated ' premises.I am just suggesting that this is the same.I will enquire with our legal departments view

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Author Topic: HMO FS Inspections. (Read 19760 times)