Ground loading for pumping appliances

[kurnal]

The only ground loading factors for fire appliances that I can find are those given in the Scottish Technical standards for high rise appliances- now 8.3kg/sq cm. ( Used to be 7kg- anyone know why it has increased?)

Please can anyone give me a ground loading factor for pumping appliances in terms of kgs/sq cm or newtons per whatever?

I see Scottish tech standards now quoting 14 tonne axle loading up from 12.5 tonnes. Cant find any relevant English document, and fire prevention note 1/70 must surely be well past its sell by date.
Thanks for your help

[Mike Buckley]

Have a look at Approved Document B section 5 table 20 p111 which specifies the minimum carrying capacity for the surface. 12.5 tonnes for pumping appliances and 17 tonnes for high rise appliances.

[kurnal]

Thanks Mike-  Its interesting though that the latest guidance to the Scottish standards is now looking for 14 tonnes axle weight for a pumping appliance- used to be 12.5 as you say.
 
The architect in this case is asking me for ground loading factors aand whilst these are often given for high rise I cant find anything for pumping appliances expressed in terms of kg/sq cm or similar.

[Pip]

The new issue of the B.Regs due out in April still proposes 12.5 tonnes appliance/17 tonnes High reach-but both ol and new B.regs point out that you should consult with your local fire service as these can differ-my local Fire authority advises that their High reach appliances are 26 tonne.

[wee brian]

Its all the tea and cakes in the cab!

[John Webb]

I'm slightly puzzled by this query. Do architects need to know the total weight of an appliance that a podium or roadway adjacent to a building (implied by ADB) is likely to need to bear? Or is this particular architect wanting to know the load on the road or other surface actually under the wheels of the appliance?  The latter will be very much higher as the weight of the vehicle is concentrated on the 'footprint' of the tyres upon the surface they are resting on.
I'm particularly interested in this from the point of view of trying to operate an aerial appliance at a church fire - most churches rarely have large roads close to the building - only paths and a grass surface.

[kurnal]

I dont know the reason for the particular query as I have been asked as a third party. I know that when levelling a brownfield site for redevelopment the site is compacted and tested to a ground loading factor and tested by a rig in terms of kg/sq cm. I can imagine that if grass reinforcement  for example was being relied on for appliance access under B5 perhaps the ground loading rather than the axle weight may be the important factor.  
It could be of relevance in terms of manholes or vents over basements should an appliance park over them.
In terms of churches and other buildings for unplanned high rise access we used to carry additional  wood pads to spread the load under the jacks if we were not sure. I guess its more critical with the newer brontos which jack themselves right off the wheels..

[John Webb]

Kurnal,
Your comments noted with thanks. We had problems some twenty years ago at my local church with a crane removing sections of a temporary building - despite laying down large chunks of timber the crane's jacks still ruined the parking area in front of the church. Made holes about a foot deep through the tarmac and hardcore!

[afterburner]

Strathclyde Fire & Rescue are introducing a composite pumping / high reach appliance (CARP = Combined Aerial Rescue Pump) which must be heavier than a standard pumping appliance. This concept does away with pumps or high reach appliances as separate vehicles. If other Fire & Rescue Authorities introduce similar vehicles there may be a need to revisit hard standing capabilities. John's comments about the crane should be borne in mind when the jacks are dropped and a CARP is deployed in the elevated position. There is an article about Strahclyde's appliance i the December / January 'Fire Times'