Sports grounds

[MrH]

Sorry to go over old ground but if the Local Authority now 'rule the roost' over sports grounds (Article 25 (d)

 Have Fire Authorise now completely washed theirs hands of sports grounds which now include casinos and hotels.
 Which operate out of normal hours of work?
 Is LA inspecting these casinos and hotels?
 Are the LA considered competent to inspect these premises?
 Are Fire Brigades setting up protocol agreements with LA to provide ‘cover?’

I have heard Andy Jack (Local Communities etc) is under some pressure to reverse or amend Article 25 (d)

[CivvyFSO]

If a safety certificate is required then it is the LA who enforce the RRO. Anywhere that comes under the safety certificate, so if the hotel/casino is covered by the safety cert on match days (for instance) then this is the LA's responsiblity at all times.

If they could manage it at the times when a safety certificate was in force then I am sure they can manage it at all other times too.

[val]

I was unable to find any information on how to determine 'where' the safety certificate should extend to. In a simple old fashioned standalone stadium it was fairly easy but inthe more integrated complexes...where should the limit of the safety cert. extend to? Should it cover all the shops, hotels, casinos, etc?

[black arts]

There is still much confusion regarding who are the enforcing authority, many
 smaller Local Authorities do not have the capacity or fire safety ability to enforce
out of hours at larger stadiums which have casinos or hotels attached

[wee brian]

The enforcer is the Local authority - but the fire authority is a member of the safety committee.

So no they havent washed their hands of it. It makes sense to have one enforcer for all safety measures in these premises where the potential for cock up is high.

[black arts]

And when your Local Authority officer pops home at 5pm, and problems occur
who is left incharge, the fire service have no authority on these premises,
We have turned the clock back to pre Bradford fire.

[wee brian]

What a load of old rubbish - Its not just the fire service that works outside office hours.

The fire service will obviousely take charge of an emergency (or the police if thats appropriate).

Its just a simple case of who does the court work - lets face it fire brigades are hopeless at enforcement.

[MrH]

Wee Brian
What we are trying to established is outside normal office hours who will enforce the Fire Safety Order.  ( I have checked with my LA, they work 0900- 1700 hours)


Your comment regarding Fire safety officers was unnessary

[wee brian]

Then they need to get their act together. For years we used to carry out DP (during performance) inspections of theatres - these had to be done in the evening. The same goes for trading standards officers, EHOs etc etc.

If the LA chose not to do their job properly thats not the fault of the system but the LA. If the brigade finda problem they can raise it with the LA who can take action - its not hard.

I was critisising Fire Brigades not Officers. Theres always plenty of concern, rarely any real enforcement (this is getting worse).

[PhilB]

Must agree with Wee Brian. If brigades don't get there act together and enforce effectively the regime will not work and I believe FRS may lose the role of enforcing authority.

[wee brian]

Much of what we used to look at in DP inspections was fire safety related. Now fire safety has been taken out of licensing are Brigades checking these things?

[MrH]

Licensing Act 2003

The Licensing Objectives

Section 4 of the Act refers to ‘The Licensing Objectives’, there are four such objectives, and they are:

•   the prevention of crime and disorder;
•   public safety;
•   the prevention of public nuisance; and
•   the protection of children from harm.

public safety read fire safety

[PhilB]

Sorry Mr H what is your point?

[val]

Whilst I agree that FRS should be doing more, some are gearing up and doing 'peak activity' type inspections, (effectively replacements for DPI's). As always resources, bickering about cover for outside normal hours, (for specialist FSO's), sexy CFS and general de-skilling of the reference are hampering this.

After the Licensing Act, and the RRO, we did take over full responsibility for ensuring fire safety responsibilities are complied with in theatres, etc but as usual, something else needed to fall off the table.

[Pip]

Yes, I can add that in my area we are gearing up for more 'enforcement' be it Enforcement letters,prohibition or prosecution.Unfortunately in past years there has not been the will from senior management to enforce or prohibit -but times are now changing with dedicated teams being put together to carry through the legal process.Of course,it is a learning curve but there is currently far more legal enforcement in my area than ever before- and there is a willingness to test how far cases will go.And yes-if we are not seen to enforce either 1) it will be percieved there is nothing wrong 2) enforcement could move to another body.