Author Topic: New AD M  (Read 18993 times)

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« on: June 18, 2004, 03:33:57 PM »
Has anyone obtained any definitive information as to what the twaddle in the new AD M re doors being held open and visual alarms actually means in practice. If we speify a new frsc doorset in an existing building does it have to be held open by an automatic clsoing device; if so, what if there is no AFD in the building.

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2004, 04:39:03 PM »
If its an existing building then replacing a door would not be covered by the building Regs. But the DDA will apply so it is then necessary to do whatever is reasonable...

If the new door is part of some "building work" then part M applies and yes you will probably have to provide a hold open device with associated AFD.

Exactly how much AFD you need is not so clear. A detector either side of the door is probably not enough.

If you are really clever you may be able to get a door set that achieves the required fire resistance and doesn't need a closer with an opening force of more than 20N.

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2004, 02:49:40 PM »
The new door could be part of upgrading fire precautions, say, under the Workplace Regs. It could be regarded as building work, but in any case since hypthetically it is a new door Ad M would mean you need a hold open device surely.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2004, 08:58:37 AM »
We are into the "definition of building work" question here. This is about as wooly as law can get.

Your guess is as good as mine but a straight like for like replacement would not normally be regarded as building work.

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2004, 01:13:46 AM »
No I know that. But a new doorset might
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2004, 02:13:55 PM »
Your right. Part M is one of the "relevant requirements" listed in Reg 3(3)  (I just checked) so a new doorset would be building work and so all the complications would apply to it.

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2004, 02:17:23 AM »
Yup, that was my view. So, a wee man puts in a new FRSC door to satisfy the FP (W) Regs, say, and WHAM! The might of Part M of the Building Regs hits him harder than Wallace hit the English at Stirling Bridge. So off he goes to read the crap (oops I mean your worthy colleagues' excellent AD M,  WeeB, on which I would bet even more than I would on England screwing up in the final match, they never consulted you or the firey people at the ODPM) and falls off his chair when he reads what it says. ''never mind'' quoth he, I will just fit one of them there MDHs (or EVEN a fancy swing free closer). '' Oh dear'' he then goes, I aint got none of them there smoke detector things (but then does AD M even care?). ''Nil problemo'' he thinks, a couple of stand alone smoke detectors will do the trick and satisfy AD M. But oh dear dear, along comes the fire authority ( or maybe even the BCO, since we have just agreed that building work is involved) armed with the recent CACFOA ( or whatever they call themselves now ) policy doc, chuntering about an L3 AFD system (what the hell for- if the MDH is on one floor of a multi-storey building, why do we need AFD on all the other floors). No matter, the wee man says, I will just fork out £50,000 for an AFD system as well as the wee door. Eh, its enough to make wee Chrissy Houston go back into selling the stuff again (possibly with more success this time if the above fairy tale is to be believed). Do all these intelligensia of the civil service and the mighty CFOA and uncle Tom Cobley and all who seem to be writing the stuff and nonsense that those of us with dirty hands have to try to work these days with ever talk or stop to think, or do they draft it all while watching Coronation Street? I knew I should have stuck to vet medicine as a youngster. At least you can bin the excreta from cows.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2004, 07:11:09 PM »
nuf said

Offline afterburner

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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2004, 03:01:40 PM »
Colin, the only error in what you said was relative to when England managed to screw up.

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2004, 09:14:55 PM »
Yup, should have put more money on that.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2004, 10:50:23 AM »
Remind me what happened to Wallace in the end?

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2004, 12:30:55 PM »
He went to hollywood

Offline colin todd

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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2004, 01:21:49 AM »
and had his face painted with what to me looked like du luxe
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2004, 02:50:20 AM »
Quote from: "colin todd"
Eh, its enough to make wee Chrissy Houston go back into selling the stuff again (possibly with more success this time if the above fairy tale is to be believed).
Quote


Are you implying there was a lack of success in my sales of such systems?

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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2004, 09:04:55 AM »
yes