Author Topic: Basement Car Park (Read 14200 times)

GB · « **on:** May 17, 2007, 09:32:59 AM »

I am looking for guidance / CoP for fire safety measures in basement car park under 4 storeys of domestic accommodation. Looked in ADB & 9999 with no significant success.

Can anyone assist in pointing me in right direction?

Martin Burford · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2007, 12:26:51 PM »

GB
Try looking through editions of FSE.
Conqueror

messy · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2007, 12:58:51 PM »

There's a Petroleum Inspectors Association (can't remember their proper name & can't find it on Google) who have a CoP on their website. I won't have access to my copy until Tuesday

It deals with separation, ventilation and other issues.

Was it something specific you were after??

Tom Sutton · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2007, 11:25:02 PM »

Try Post war building studies No 28 at http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/research/structures/strucfire/DataBase/References/defaultOther.htm it may be a little dated

messy · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2007, 09:06:07 PM »

The site I was after is:

http://www.apea.org.uk/

The Association of Petroleum and Explosive Administration

The APEA is a UK based organisation, drawing membership from all quarters of the petroleum industry, including Regulators from National and Local Government Authorities, Oil Companies, Equipment Manufacturers and Suppliers, Service and Installation Organisations, Training Establishments and many others. It is seen to be unique in representing all sides of the industry and in providing a forum for debate and the generation of technical guidance.

They have published a guide in 1994 on the design and use of car parks. It aint the most comprehensive document in the world, but it's better than nothing

jayjay · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2007, 04:50:29 PM »

There is a section on basement car parks in the Approved Document B Volume 2, Buildings other than Dwelling Houses, 2006 edition.
The document can be downloaded from the Communities and Local Govermnet Web site

Peter Wilkinson · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2007, 08:23:15 PM »

It is widely acknowledged that there is little information available relating to fires in car parks- especially up-to-date knowledge of how modern cars react to fire/fire spread between cars etc. The BRE is currently undertaking a research project into this very topic, and a chat with their project leader might prove fruitful.

http://www.redbooklive.com/newsdetails.jsp?id=46

ian gough · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2007, 04:41:46 PM »

Peter gives excellent advice. Also, check out what happened in Bristol in December last year!

Tall Paul · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2007, 10:34:01 AM »

Thank you for the pointer Ian. It's a sobering picture. Whilst it seems that the fire started in an undercroft car park as a result of arson, does anyone have further information relating to the spread of the fire?

Paul

kurnal · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2007, 11:23:59 AM »

According to reports on the BBC website the car park was sprinklered as well. But the reports say someone has been charged with arson with intent to endanger life so perhaps its not yet time to write off the design solutions in approved document B 2007 and to await the outcome of the BRE study?

And already I am having a forthright discussion with a local authority BCO who is telling me that a design I have submitted in accordance with the ADB is flawed as a result of a recent occurrence. I have replied that it complies with the latest National Guidance published on April 6 2007 and am awaiting his response.

ian gough · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2007, 12:17:54 PM »

Kurnal, I believe that the car park was NOT sprinklered - hence the concerns of Avon Fire & Rescue and CLG - and, of course, the fire sprinkler industry.

And are you suggesting that a BCO is applying 'risk assessment' to a project and not simply following a code???

I believe ADB is seriously out of date in relation to basement car parks especially.

kurnal · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2007, 02:08:11 PM »

I am sure you are right Ian and we all await the outcome of the BRE study- its long overdue.
But if you are erecting a building today that incorporates basement car parks and the client has only finite funding its very difficult to suggest that a design which in every respect complies with the approved document published by the government 8 weeks ago is an unsatisfactory design.

ian gough · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2007, 09:14:36 AM »

The joys of 'risk assessment' and national guidance eh? However, you should also be aware of the number of serious fires in car parks in the rest of Europe - France and Austria in particular (deaths of 5 firefighters due to collapsing structure comes to mind). I understand the French are considering mandatory sprinkler protection of even some mult-storey car parks.

Jon Barrett · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2007, 04:27:48 PM »

Had anyone spotted that the ADB has dropped a very pertinent note...

ADB 2002 - 12.2 - 'Note: Because of the above (fire load well defined and not particularly high and well ventilated), car parks are not normally expected to be sprinklered'. This was a significant statement in support of unsprinklered car parks.

This note does not appear in ADB 2006!

Perhaps we'll end up going the Aussie way - install sprinklers in car parks and reduce down fire separation rating of the floors.

Ken Taylor · « **Reply #14 on:** July 10, 2007, 09:13:40 PM »

From my Inner-London days, I still recall boarded-up smoke-stained basement car parks beneath residential blocks - no longer accessible to cars. Presumably an issue that still needs 'tightening up'.

News:

Author Topic: Basement Car Park (Read 14200 times)

messy

messy