Manual call points

[MrH]

Is it possible to have key operated manual call points. (Keys held by staff only)
What legislation  (Brit Std.) covers this problem

The premises is a private secure unit for convicted arsonists

[CivvyFSO]

I have heard of something similar being used in schools where malicious activation is a problem. The call point isn't operated by a key, but there is a cover over the call point that needs a key to access the call point. I also did a search on google and found a key operated manual call point, so they are out there.

I doubt british standards covers it, but a risk assessment could. Simply prove it works and it is appropriate.

[messy]

Mr H

British Standards are not law. They provide examples of best practice which can be used in most cases. In your example, it's possible that key operated manual call points (MCPs) may be a good idea.

It comes down to risk assessing and asking key questions such as:
Does this premise suffer from unwanted fire signals from 'break glass' call points? If there are convicted arsonists, and thereby the inference is a high risk of a rapidly developing arson fire, is it sensible to remove such devices?
Is there a risk of self harm from broken glass/plastics used in MCPs?

Any such variation from the BS should be recorded in the risk assessment document along with the rationale for such a decision

I have been involved with a number of mental health units - two of which were forensic units and thereby had similar clients - where key operated MCPs were introduced. All staff carry a key (in theory!) and these key operated MCPs are only situated in wards and non-public areas. Common areas such a corridors and reception areas -where the public can be without staff nearby- remain fitted with frangible MCPs.

[kurnal]

I agree with messy, and can confirm that this is appropriate in these situations.
Similarly evacuation procedures may need to be different as security will be a prime consideration- progressive evacuation and compartmentation in the building, and secure areas outside. There is a home office guidance document "fire standards in prison establishments- principles of design and standards of construction" which may be of interest.

[Wiz]

Adding to points made above;

Whilst British Standards are not law, always ensure that any variations (even when created by a fire risk assessment) is acceptable to all interested parties (especially any insurance company!)

A hinged cover (with or without a key-operated call point) will require a variation from B.S.

KAC manufacture a key-operated fire alarm manual call point.

In areas of vandalism, the slots for keys in key-operated call points can be damaged by inserting a screwdriver or rendered inoperable by inserting chewing gum / glue etc into them.

Options include (i) staff carrying a special token that operates when placed against a vandal resistant sensor that can be made to look like a fire alarm manual call point or (ii) staff carrying a battery operated transmitter that generates coded infra-red light pulses that are picked up by a strategically placed ceiling-mounted sensor connected to the fire aalrms or (iii) staff carrying a battery operated wireless transmitter that signals (even through walls) to a strategically placed wireless receiver connected to the fire alarm.

[jayjay]

I have been involved in a school which has fitted key operated call points, they were approved by the local FRS and building control. All staff carry a key to operate the alarm which means that students discovering a fire must find and inform a staff member.

I was not in favour but the school was happy with the authorities advice.
Next time I review the fire risk assessment I will be chcking on the availability of the keys.

[MrH]

Many thanks for all your replies

[Martin Burford]

jayjay
Is the school open to members of the public in either in hours or our of hours, if so what happens about members of the public operating the fire alarm...........and if its used by the public does it have satisfactory emergency lighting.
Conqueror.

[Graeme]

I have been involved in a school which has fitted key operated call points, they were approved by the local FRS and building control. All staff carry a key to operate the alarm which means that students discovering a fire must find and inform a staff member.

I was not in favour but the school was happy with the authorities advice.
Next time I review the fire risk assessment I will be chcking on the availability of the keys.

see how many staff still carry them in a few months.

Left in drawer,hand bag at home etc.

[Tall Paul]

I have supported a similar scheme in a secure hostel for troubled teenagers.  The hostel had been suffering from a spate of deliberate breakages.  However, in this instance there were only five staff and two escape routes in a small establishment, so it has been easy to ensure ongoing compliance.  When parents visit the site they are provided with a key, which is signed for on issue and on return for each occasion.

Call points in locked cabinets are also the norm for sports stadia with reliance on trained stewards to raise the alarm.

Where there is a clearly identified problem, and a robust management solution can be assured, then locked call points may be part of the toolkit in a properly risk assessed approach.  The difficulty is in being sure of the robust management solution.

Paul

[jayjay]

The school is not open to the public as such but is used for adult evening classes.  The evening teaching staff are also supposed to carry the key.
This is a two year old school and is provided with emergency lighting.

It is an interesting situation within this school as, due to some "innovative" horizontal curtain fire shutters !!!, the  school had a fire engineered fire strategy for compliance with building regs, when the proposal was raised to replace the break glass call point with key operated I recommended that the fire startegy document be reviewed as this was a relevant item in fire warning time which may affect the Assumed Safe Evacuation Time. This was not carried out and I now wonder if the approvals are stictly correct as the fire engineered solution has chaged.

[afterburner]

Perhaps the need for a readily accessible MCP is compounded by the arsonist group incarcerated. Their fire raising activities are forseeable and therefore the need to give a warning of the fire is also forseeable to protect others, Staff or Prisoners who are 'innocent' parties at that moment. However, just because they are arsonists it does not always equate that they are vandals who will deliberately set off the fire alarm. I would have thought the automatic detection system would take care of the actual arson activity.
Lastly, only equipping Staff with keys means the alarm cannot be raised until a member of Staff is available and attends. How does the Staff member know to attend because they are not there all the time? Another alarm to tell the Staff an urgent event needs their attendance?

[greg]

Strikes me that in this type of premises then one of the major risks would be that of a deliberate ignition. Therefore surely AFD would be the best solution or a sprinkler system. If MCPs are required then locate them on the other side of securing doors.

[Mike Buckley]

I have just had a copy of the FSE magazine across my desk. There is a bit of publicity blurb from Gent in it which talks about an AFD system they have devised for prisons with the Home Office. It might be worth your time having a word with Gent.

[nearlythere]

This is one of those situations which demonstrates that the safety measures should be tailored to suit the primary function of the premises and not the other way about.
First and foremost the building is a private secure unit for convicted arsonists and the safety measures put in place must ensure that they do not detract from this function. The means of securing the convicts comes first and the way to do it safely, under the circumstances, comes second.  Otherwise all of our detention establishments would be empty.

Keys left at home or in a drawer is a problem with the management of keys and employees and should be addressed specifically with this in mind. Keys left at home or in a drawer is negligence by both employee and management. Employees should ensure they report for duty with them and management should ensure that employees are not on duty without them.
Simple.