Author Topic: Sale of fire extinguishers by the retail giants  (Read 8949 times)

Offline kurnal

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Sale of fire extinguishers by the retail giants
« on: June 14, 2007, 12:23:42 PM »
I have just been shown some dry powder extinguishers by a client who has purchased them from a DIY retail giant.
They are I would guess 1kg dry powder with factory mutual certification but no BS or CE markings.
The fire rating is given as 1A 10B- I guess the FM tests must be different to ours.

Is this a matter for the  trading standards department?

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2007, 12:26:37 PM »
Not sure if they are breaking any rules - theres no reuirement in law for CE marking, or is there?

Offline kurnal

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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2007, 02:51:31 PM »
There is for some products- for example childrens toys and Personal protective equipment, but I dont know if fire extinguishers have been designated. I did look at the EC website before posting but could not make head or tail of it. All my extinguishers are marked CE0044 but cant find any reference to what that means.

Chris Houston

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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2007, 02:24:26 PM »
Factory Mutual are very good at what they do, their standards have international respect, but at the end of the day they are just an insurance company.

Offline kurnal

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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2007, 06:01:50 PM »
Does anybody know if the 1A rating by Factory Mutual bears any resemblance to the european ratings?
From the size of the extinguisher I would have guessed a typical 8A rating on the BS tests

Offline AnthonyB

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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2007, 07:50:35 PM »
Because of the Pressure Equipment Directive all fire extinguishers sold in the EU must as a minimum be CE marked - at least thats what a variety of different manufacturers & third party accrediation bodies say.

Even the mass flood of chinese extinguishers normally comply with this, however US being US do not. Many traditional US based globals in the residential field have switched to EU produced gear to solve this - Kidde, having bought Gloria are phasing in Gloria CE marked (& kitemarked) products in the place of its traditional range of UL approved US imports.

UL & EN ratings are not directly comparable as there are some key differences in the tests - I have an article from many many years ago by Angus Fire Armour that compares the two systems and details their differences which i will try & dig out.

As long as it has some approvals & works it shouldn't matter too much - the main problem with powder exts that aren't 3rd party marked is they normally use powder with a low MAP content and have dire ratings, Exxmon & FireFox products spring to mind
Anthony Buck
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Offline wee brian

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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 10:05:39 PM »
If there is a directive then there will be English/UK regulations that implement it - if you are lucky they have similar names.

Offline wee brian

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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2007, 10:11:48 PM »
Pressure Equipment Regulations 1999 (SI 1999/2001)

http://www.dti.gov.uk/innovation/strd/ecdirect/page12629.html

Offline John Webb

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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2007, 10:34:32 AM »
LPCB and BRE Certification may be able to give you information on the differences between their (BS-based) tests and the FM tests. Try www.redbooklive.com or www.bre.co.uk
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline Jason Miller

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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2007, 06:29:48 PM »
I have always read that the PED (CE Marking) is a legal requirement for a pressure cylinder in the UK.

The USA fire ratings system is different to the EN3 version that we use and, to add confusion, the USA Class C is for electrical fires where we have no electrical fire classification (although some think it's Class E).

The small US extinguishers also tend to be white or brushed aluminium to add to the confusion.

If memory serves me right, didn't B&Q, Allied Safety and Ardenoak get into trouble with Trading Standards for selling a fire blanket that was not manufactured to the full and proper BS some years ago? That's when they all changed over to BS 6575 from BS "474".

Anthony is correct on the Kidde/Gloria thing but they are notoriously dis-jointed as a company and bring these over with the detectors because they cost them pennies to produce in the US.

Why don't people just buy proper-sized extinguishers for homes anyway? Do they assume that house fires are smaller than those at work?

Offline AnthonyB

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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2007, 10:50:37 AM »
Since this thread started I've started (sadly) looking at the safety aisles in the DIY stores - some stock PED approved EN3 kitemarked Gloria products under the Kidde banner, others still stock direct import First Alert products that are not PED approved and have US pictograms, fire classes & ratings.

Although being UL approved I would be confident about their efficacy, unlike the chinese powders appearing in some discont supermarket chains that have a PED CE mark, but thats about it for testing and approvals.

The main problem is the use of 'domestic' extinguishers in workplaces. The RRO guide now accepts them for small premises, but only if the expiry date is complied with. Now from a cost point of view it is cheaper to buy a factory sealed 2 kilo powder and replace it every 5 years than by a standard refillable and have a basic service every year and an extended every 5 years, but to most an extinguisher is an extinguisher so instead of the EN3 kitemarked factory sealed 2 kilo ABC Powder with guage, several places go for the gaugeless non compliant 600g BC powder that won't work on one of the main fuel classes present (A).

Ironically people did used to have proper sized extinguishers in the home - Minimax & Merryweather targeted the home market with 10 pint & 2 gallon extinguishers sucessfully in the first half of the 20th century, even making them in different finishes to complement decor - & many private cars had a Pyrene extinguisher under the hood. The birth of the aerosol can led to the smaller extinguishers now seen with as little as 500g of agent
Anthony Buck
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