Gas boiler in bedroom

[The Colonel]

Whilst undertaking a risk assessment on a small B&B bedroom I came across a LPG central heating/water boiler located in a cupboard directly behind the entrance door. The boiler is of the balanced flue type vented to open air and located in an enclosure made of 9mm plaster board on studs, sadley with some gaps on the inside, the door is a standard domestic one with two vents allowing air circulation back into the bedroom. The room is on the ground floor with access direct to outside.

My initial thoughts were upgrade to full 30 min Fr with FD30S door, if vents were needed they to should be 30 FR. It would be preferable to provide ventilation to open air rather than the room? Also no CO detection in room.

Not being gas qualified I have my doubts as to the legality of this situation, but the service engineer on the annual service made no comment.

Has anyone experianced similar and how did you manage it, I would be most grateful for your experiance and views

[Gel]

Would suggest at minimum an approved CO alarm is fitted.

[Fishy]

Depends whom you are trying to protect.  As far as the room occupant(s) are concerned, fire detection in the room itself would seem to be a reasonable precaution - and if you've got that and direct exit to the outside an FD30 door on the boiler cupboard itself is probably unnecessary.  However, if a fire in the boiler cupboard could affect someone else's means of escape (e.g. residents upstairs, for example) you might like to think about making sure the entire cupboard (not just the doorset) is upgraded.

[kurnal]

I have rarely heard of a fire involving or caused by a balanced flue domestic type boiler in itself- its usually down to bad housekeeping and storage of materials in proximity to hot parts or poor maintenance. However percieved wisdom is that boiler rooms are high risk rooms and for this reason where I encounter this situation in a small care home, school or hotel would normally recommend enclosing the boiler room in fire resisting materials with a half hour fire door and if vents are essential (obviously not needed for combustion) would ask for intumescent honeycomb. Provide fire detection in the cupboard if walk in, and CO detector in room. Have recently done this in a small care home where a former office was converted to a resisents bedroom,  and another in a premises where HTM88 was applied.

[The Colonel]

Thanks for your views all.

Have checked with CORGI and room sealed boilers such as balanced flues are ok. I shall be recomending 30 min Fr and door as the cupboard is right next to the exit from the room. And for life safety a CO dectertor in the bedroom.

Thanks

[PhilB]

I shall be recomending 30 min Fr and door as the cupboard is right next to the exit from the room.

Concerns me slightly Colonel. What benefit is the 30 minute enclosure and door to the person in the room? Do you think that a fire will start and develop to such an extent that means of escape from the room will be compromised?

How much is this going to cost your client?

[kurnal]

Hi Phil
I too recommended enclosing the boiler in a  FR cupboard. Not because I believe it to be strictly necessary in every case. But every guidance document you will find seems to consider boiler rooms to be high risk rooms and warrant enclosure irrespective whether nuclear reactor, industrial or small domestic balanced flue gas boiler.

The problem we consultants have is to find a reasonable, safe solution by risk assessment and then consider whether it is likely to stand the scrutinyand whim of the local fire officer or BCO the vast majority of whom do not share your pragmatic open attitude.  The worst case for the consultant is to agree a schedule with the client and then find the local officer will not accept it. That can destroy our credibility with most smaller clients- the blue chips and the large outfits will back us up and not be afraid to appeal but the majority of smaller clients will  usually assume the enforcement officer is right and that we were wrong. They have already paid our fee and never have an appetite for an appeal that may cost them time and money even when the consultant is right- which I usually am.

Despite my best efforts to persuade them otherwise, the smaller client will not stand and be counted. And I am not allowed to stand my ground on behalf of the client except under their instructions. So in these cases the recommended solution has to be both reasonable, guarantee to pass scrutiny and therefore will often sit at  a safety level  above the ALARP baseline.   Yes it costs the client but is cheaper and easier than an appeal for those with little muscle.

[PhilB]

Hi Kurnal

You have raised an interesting point.

Unfortunately many out there both fire officers & consultants blindly follow guidance without really understanding why the guidance says what it says. Also some guidance is written by authors who clearly would be best suited to another career!!

Perhaps at least The Colonel should inform his client why the FR is required in this particular circumstance.

Presumably the corridor is protected from the bedroom by FR so the protection around the boiler is not to protect the means of escape for other occupiers.

Is it for the protection of the person in the room?......I doubt it, but if it is please someone explain why.

Is it that the boiler itself is a place of special fire hazard as defined in ADB??.........read that definition, again I doubt it.

Or is it there, as you suggest, because the fire officer will require it regardless of the risk??

If that is the case surely the client should be informed, and perhaps the inspectors line manager should be informed that some staff development may be in order.

I am of course assuming that the line manager is himself competent....let's not go there!!!!

[The Colonel]

Phill

The voice of reasoned argument and some common sense, not changed much since you were teaching me some 5 or 6 years ago. Yes I agree that guidance is just that a guide which is there to help towards a solution and to help save life, and I dont see it as written in stone, each circumstance must be assessed individualy.

There is no corridor, the room opens direct to open air and the cupboard is in the corner next to the door which you must pass to get out.

I shall be explaining in detail to the client why I shall be recommending some work in this area. Yes 30 mins is the standard but in this case it is the guide and I dont think it is what is needed, what I want here is more time for the residents to exit the room.

The room is suitable for use by disabled persons with level access and wet room etc and as we all know persons with disablities can take longer to get out of an area particalay at night. I would like to see an extra layer of plaster board possibly on the room side of the cupboard (easy and cheap to do) with a better door (30 min) with strips and seals so that persons have that extra time to exit with thier disability without the worry of smoke and fumes. The vents are just to allow air circulation which could be achieved with vents to outside but not on the same wall as the flue.

Could be that just replacing the door with one with no vents and some seals would achieve the same extra time for the guest, still weighing up the options.

With regard to competant line managers I know what you mean, had one with no training or experiance for a couple of years but we got him to see the light eventually exept for one case.

[wee brian]

If the boiler was just fixed to the wall - as they usually are then you wouldnt ask for any FR its only because its in a cupboard that people think it needs to be an FR cupboard.

Perhaps we should enclose the fireplace in a fire resisting box - It wont be much use though.

[kurnal]

Good point wee brian. But by the same token because it is in a cupboard it is more likely to be surrounded by combustible clutter than if up on the wall of the room itself. I agree with you that a wall mounted domestic boiler with balanced flue is no more of a risk than a wall mounted room non radiant room heater.

[The Colonel]

This one is slightly larger than average and floor mounted, the cupboard also contains the mains electric distribution board and intake

[Ken Taylor]

Whilst generally not necessary, in view of the various factors (bedroom, B&B, by exit door, in cupboard, LPG) I'd be happier with the 30min protection in addition to detection.

[PhilB]

Exactly my point Ken, you may be happier, the client is poorer but is anyone safer?

As Wee Brian points out perhaps we should enclose the fireplace in FR, ............and why not the TV too, they can suddenly burst into flames and it is a bedroom in a B&B after all.

Watching the Bill through georgian wired glazing may catch on and might even prevent some posters from mistaking me for PC Stamp!

[The Colonel]

Phill, I feel that any persons in the room with disabilities will be safer as they will have a little more time to get going and as the room is advertised as suitable for diabled that time may be required. Cost wise the implications are not over expensive and can be done on a diy basis.

I care about clients money but I also care about those persons that may be affected and if I dont point out the possiblities I have not done my job correctly, its up to the client to bit the bulliet