Author Topic: Prevention surely is better than cure  (Read 14959 times)

Offline Advanced Smoke Technology

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Prevention surely is better than cure
« on: August 31, 2007, 12:52:20 PM »
We are a small company that has a product for protecting cables...... so what you may ask?

But look at what happens in fires cables burn through, systems go down and the Emergency Services are in the dark.

Recently we were asked by a large bank to provide a solution to cables running through an underground carpark that could be protected in the event of a car fire below, an we came up with the Hi-Protect cable containment system, this provided protection for cables with the internal temperature not exceeding 50C with a 5Mw fire below.

We have tried to introduce this to the petrochemical industry, storage depots off the M1 just outside London, came to mind but we dont know where to go, can anyone help us out here.

If we can help protect vital services, it's got to be good alround!!

                     www.hi-protect.com

Offline CivvyFSO

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Prevention surely is better than cure
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2007, 01:44:05 PM »
Quote from: Advanced Smoke Technology
But look at what happens in fires cables burn through, systems go down and the Emergency Services are in the dark.
Surely all fire safety measures should already be installed with the ability to work for a reasonable duration in the event of a power loss?

Offline Advanced Smoke Technology

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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2007, 06:31:19 PM »
Do you believe that to be the case? I am sure that in most cases you are correct, but what about the ones where a short cut has been taken?

Chris Houston

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Prevention surely is better than cure
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2007, 07:41:38 PM »
In the UK cables for fire alarm systems etc should be able to resist fire for long enough for people to evacuate, typically cable that can resist fire for 30 minutes is used.  

I doubt that your systems are cheaper than fire resisting cable, so I can't see that most buildings would need your systems.

I doubt also that if some coyboy had installed a system without fire resisting cable, that the cheapest solution would be to then retrofit your system, the best thing to do would be to put in a system with the normal 30-minute resisting cable.

Depending on how long your systems can resist fire, places where the consequences of loosing a cable are very expensive - perhaps critical IT systems, might have a need for the system - but generally if there are mission critical IT systems, for example banks, they will have a separate hot start facility off site.  The simple solution would be to avoid runing cables through high fire risk areas.  Further to that, if a building has a large fire, it won't just be the cables that are damaged, it will be the structural integrity of the building and many other systems.  The focus of risk management professionals will tend to be to avoid the fire in the first place (good housekeeping, elimnation of ignition sources, control of flammables etc etc) then reacting quickly to a fire (fire extinguishers, sprinklers, fire alarms to summon the fire service).

I expect there is a market for your product, but that it is limited.  The typical factory or shop isn't going to need such a complex system.

I think the focus in petrochemical places will certaily be to avoid fires in the first place.  A fire in such a place would be biger than 5MW.  Likewise in a storage depot.

Good luck.  I think you need to establish who you need to sell to.  If you need to market your product, us folks tend to read Fire Prevention journal.

Pleae further be warned against advertising on this forum, which we do not allow without permission.

Offline Advanced Smoke Technology

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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2007, 09:01:14 AM »
Apologies for overstepping the mark with the advertising.

You are correct this is not the place to advertise but to share knowledge.

Try not to do this again

Trevor Jackson

Offline Big T

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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2007, 12:36:28 PM »
Quote from: Advanced Smoke Technology
Recently we were asked by a large bank to provide a solution to cables running through an underground carpark that could be protected in the event of a car fire below, an we came up with the Hi-Protect cable containment system, this provided protection for cables with the internal temperature not exceeding 50C with a 5Mw fire below.
Recent studies stemming from the Monica Wills Sheltered Housing accomodation in Bristol (Dec 2006) has confirmed that the original estimated output from a car fire being in the region of 4MW (Just below your products ability at 5MW) was grossly underestimated and is more in the region of 8MW.

Would the product cope?

Offline Advanced Smoke Technology

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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2007, 12:49:24 PM »
The design brief was quite onerous with the Hi-Protect system requiring to protect fibre optic cables from exceeding 50degC after two hours with a 5MW fire adjacent to the ducting; admittedly this system had some very special insulation within the casing (something to do with the space shuttle!!) and the car park was sprinkler protected.

Although in this instance this was not life safety, as more and more communications these days are being carried by fibre optics, system integrity can be maintained for extended periods because of the above.  The Hi-Protect system also provides protection against malicious damage and blast, yet can still be opened up to allow additional cables to be pulled through or added to when required.

The additional loading of a 10MW car or more probably lorry fire can be achieved easily by the addition of further insulation within the system.

Offline wee brian

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Prevention surely is better than cure
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2007, 04:16:44 PM »
Dont confuse a peak HRR with a steady state design fire - cars do kick out about 10MW (this isnt big news) but not for all that long.

There's definately a market for protecting business critical coms - I dont think its a big one though.
With life safety systems they only need to work long enough to do their job - they dont need to survive indefinately (usually).

Offline Advanced Smoke Technology

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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 04:59:41 PM »
Thanks for all your help guys, we are learning all the while from people like yourselves and if we can assist you in the future, please dont hesitate to contact us.

Everything you are saying is being taken on-board.

Offline CivvyFSO

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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2007, 01:34:49 PM »
Might be worth looking at situations where data travel is critical, i.e. Military installations, CCTV/security systems that need to keep working in all situations. Data itself can easily be backed up and protected, but where movement of data is critical then the cables might benefit from this sort of protection.

The loss of power to computer systems etc can be easily tackled with a decent UPS.

Offline Advanced Smoke Technology

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Prevention surely is better than cure
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2007, 03:12:19 PM »
Gents

Keep them coming, all help from you guys is gratefully recieved,

Trevor

Chris Houston

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Prevention surely is better than cure
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2007, 04:37:57 PM »
Quote from: CivvyFSO
The loss of power to computer systems etc can be easily tackled with a decent UPS.
Any large IT facility will generate a lot of heat.  They therefore must have air conditioning, which is very heavy on the power.  UPS systems in large places tend to either last just long enough to do a safe shut down, or enough time for a the generator to kick in.  Therefore for large critical systems, a UPS and a generator are needed.

Offline Pip

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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2007, 05:15:04 PM »
As civvy mentioned-there may be a market in military establishments(possibly even more so in warships) where the normal rules of evacuation are not there-i.e. there is a desire to maintain an operational commitment in severe circumstances-sailors lives would be sacrificed to save a ship in a war/critical situation.No doubt there is a market for your product but as others have mentioned it may be limited-although if there was a military market that is potentially huge.I will split the commission for this (potentialy)valuable advice with Civvy!

Offline Advanced Smoke Technology

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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2007, 05:18:06 PM »
Thanks for your help, if we secure a contract with the MOD or similar the beers on me!!!

Offline Pip

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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2007, 05:40:16 PM »
a beer would go down now quite nicely-any chance of an advance in good faith?!