Fire Risk Assessment

[Guzzy1962]

I have been asked to undertake a fire risk assessment on a student house by the landlord, looking at what guidance is available i think ishould be using the Fire Safety Risk Assessment - Sleeping Accommodation Guidance doc, is this correct?

[PhilB]

Not wishing to offend Guzzy I ask a serious question. If you have to ask are you really comptent to be carrying out the task??

[Ashley Wood]

I agree with philB. Think about what is at stake and ask yourself the question!

[nearlythere]

Ditto PhilB, Ditto Ash. Guzzy my friend, you are entering a world where the wrong advice could be catastrophic for the occupants and your liberty.
Despite what anyone says do not take the risk assessment business lightly. It is not a means of a quick buck just because you go to the odd fire (if that is relevant to you). They should be left to those who know what they are doing and that takes years.
If someone is looking for a cheap risk assessment done avoid it like the plague. Then you can sleep sound.

[Guzzy1962]

Thanks for the feed back and would agree with you fully on your points.

On the question of competency, I am qualified thats up to you to decide, I have a completed the IOSH Working Safely and Managing Safely courses, the NEBOSH certificate, working on my NEBOSH diploma,an Environmental Diploma and an associate member of IIRSM and IEMA. I have carried out risk assessments etc in industry for over 8 years and have recently undertaken a five day Fire Risk Assessment course to build up my knowledge base on the subject, but the bulk of the fire risk assessments undertaken have been in the office and the factory environment.

My main concern with anything envoling health & safety is to double check and thats why I asked the question, which still hasn't ben answered.

[PhilB]

Guzzy, in my opinion only of course, a fire risk assessment is a totally different animal from general health and safety risk assessments. The reason for this is far too complicated to explain in this post.

An IOSH managing safely, NEBOSH certificate or Diploma will not give the skills and knowledge required for this specialist field.

For example does the NEBOSH cert cover human behaviour, does the Diploma cover building performance in fire? The answer to both is no.

Your qualifications appear impressive and as I said earlier I did not wish to offend.

I have been involved in fire safety for 27 years, and have specialised in risk assesment and fire safety law for several years now. I also have several qualifications, however I would never claim to know all there is to know or deem myself competent to assess all premises or processes. Part of being competent is recognising your limitations.

As a trainer I have often been asked by employers to train personnel with no skills or knowledge in the field and turn them into comptent fire risk assessors on a five day course.

I have run many such courses, and demonstrated time and time again at the end of the course that delegates usually need further development if they are to competently assess the buildings their employer expects them to do.

Now either I'm a crap instructor (and that's a real possibility) or this complex subject requires considerable knowledge that cannot be acquired on short courses.

In answer to your original question the premises you describe appears to be an HMO and the sleeping guide is not designed to cover that use. It does cover the common parts and in the premises you describe this can be problematical to define.

As yet there is no national guidance for HMOs. It may be useful to talk to your local housing officer or fire safety officer as several local authorities are working to agreed standards and have published local guidance.

[Guzzy1962]

Phil, no offence was taken, i just wanted you to know I wasn't just trying to make a quick buck of Fire risk assessments. The landlord that has asked me to carry out the assessment is a friend and want to make sure i carry out the best job I possibly can.

I understand that this is an area of expertise that I have only dipped my toe into and am very much a novice and is something requires a lot of investigation on my part and any help and guidance is always appreciated, so thank for such a quick response.

I have looked on the web at some of the local authorities guidance, thanks for your help.

[PhilB]

Good luck with it, if I can be of any assistance please do not hesitate to ask.

[CivvyFSO]

Qualifications and competency aside, there is some other information that may be of use besides the sleeping accomodation guide. It is called 'circular 12/92'.

And for what it's worth, the sleeping accomodation guide would be the correct choice from government supplied guidance.

[PhilB]

Qualifications and competency aside, there is some other information that may be of use besides the sleeping accomodation guide. It is called 'circular 12/92'.

And for what it's worth, the sleeping accomodation guide would be the correct choice from government supplied guidance.

Civvy 12/92 would be of limited use here. It did offer a different approach for self-contained flats but that section is clearly not relevant to Guzzy.
It was written before BS5839:Part 6 and before the days of intumescent strips and cold smoke seals.

According to the CLG Sleeping Guide it is only relevant for the common parts of HMOs. Some called for national guidance but many feel this would impose prescriptive requirements that do not fit in with the ethos of risk appropriate enforcement.

In my opinion national guidance setting some benchmarks would be good but there is none. That is why some local guidance is being produced.

[Dinnertime Dave]

In my opinion national guidance setting some benchmarks would be good but there is none. That is why some local guidance is being produced.

Phil, the problem as I see it is the HM Government sleeping accommodation guide does try and sell itself as the correct guide to use. It is only when you look at the guide with a more critical eye that its limitations are more apparent.

Guzzy, should you decide to take up the challenge then one local guide that is being used increasingly within the Midlands is the Home Stamp Guide (link below)

http://www.homestamp.com/

[jokar]

12/92 was repealed along with the 1985 Housing Act in April 2006.

[wee brian]

Beat me to it - people still use it though (naushty).

Sleeping risks are the most difficult to deal with - because the guide tries to cover too many different types of premise.

Flats, sheltered accom, HMOs, shared houses, hotels, caravans etc. The safety strategy is very different.

[Big T]

Agreed, I think the sleeping accomodation guide is one of the worst. How can you apply the same guidance to a residential car home and a high rise residential block?!?

[Dinnertime Dave]

Agreed, I think the sleeping accomodation guide is one of the worst. How can you apply the same guidance to a residential car home and a high rise residential block?!?

You don’t residential care is a different guide.

Also, I don’t necessarily agree that the guides are all bad, and there are a number of mistakes within each guide (in my humble opinion) but if any of us were given the thankless task of writing the guides would we have done any better?