Getting in!

[Northern200]

Hi all,

First of all ill introduce myself, I’m Andy from the Tyne and Wear area.

I have tried numerous times to get into the FS and have failed on the first stage, the application form.

This is a question for people who have served and who are trying to get into the FS:-

Does the FRS as a whole look for people who have quite a lot of life experience and maybe professional qualifications? By this I mean do the favour people who are older than 21 and have higher education such as HNCs/Deegrees?

I know they are all about equal opportunities but you couldn’t let an 18year old become a fire-fighter when they have very little life experience could you, obviously they will recruit people who have a good working background and life knowledge/skills.

Please be honest with your answers as they will help me decide what I should do next.

Thanks
Andy

[kurnal]

Have you seen the fire gateway site? There is a questionaire that you can try to see how you measure up to the person spec.

It isnt as simple as life experience- more how what you have done meets their criteria-PQAs - how what you have done supports and demonstrates commitment to communities, diversity, etc.

[Northern200]

Thanks,
I have been on that site yes, and answered questionnaires, I’ve done fire fighter experience courses and visited various fire station during my applications, as well as spoke to fire fighters and asked their personal opinion about whether I would be suitable for the role of a fire fighter and all feedback has been very positive.

[kurnal]

Do you know why your application is being rejected? There are some essential criteria and desirable criteria in the person specification in the application pack. Some of these will be assessed from the application form and some from the interview or Job related tasks. For all the essential criteria measured from the application form you MUST give evidence on the form to prove you meet the spec. If for example one of the essential criteria is that you have a full clean driving licence, and this is assessed from the application form then you must clearly state and show you comply. Others may be a bit more subtle, for example if there is a requirement that you must have  demonstated a commitment to diversity then you must show how you have done this on the form.
Follow all instructions to the letter- eg if it says block capitals in black ink that is exactly what you must do.

Do you think you have done all this so far?

[Northern200]

Thanks for your reply,
I understand that they receive large amounts of applications each year so any mistake picked up soon will mean the application will no longer be considered.

I have as far as I and people who have proof read my application for me followed all instructions given when filling out the application form.

However I am only 20 years old at the moment and I honestly think this is why I do not get considered, either my examples are not mature enough for what they are looking for with respect that a lot of them are voluntary work related.
I also think that because I do not have a very long working background that this will also go against me.

This is because I think a 27year old could carry out the role of a fire fighter better then lets say me a 20 year old, simply because he/she would have more experience in verbal reasoning or problem solving or would have encountered situations which are asked on the application form more and would be able to answer them better because they have encountered these situations maybe more then once and there fore have a varied choice of answers.


Try try and try again I keep being told and I do but to no avail.

[Andy Cole]

I don't think your age would have that much bearing on it, don't forget your examples are asking you for examples which can be from anywhere, not nessercarily work related, think back through your school, any clubs your a member of (eg Football/Rugby club) any organisations you've been a part of Scout groups, Fire cadets etc etc even just day to day life with your mates or family where you may have been in a situation you could use.

The trick to these questions (PQA's) is to find a good example from anywhere you can and make sure you cover all the aspects of the relevant PQA with your answer, Voluntary work sounds as though it could be a source for plenty of examples, what sort of voluntary work have you done?

If you want to Email me one of the answers you've used on a previous application I can have a look for you if you like?.

Andy

[Northern200]

I don't think your age would have that much bearing on it, don't forget your examples are asking you for examples which can be from anywhere, not nessercarily work related, think back through your school, any clubs your a member of (eg Football/Rugby club) any organisations you've been a part of Scout groups, Fire cadets etc etc even just day to day life with your mates or family where you may have been in a situation you could use.

The trick to these questions (PQA's) is to find a good example from anywhere you can and make sure you cover all the aspects of the relevant PQA with your answer, Voluntary work sounds as though it could be a source for plenty of examples, what sort of voluntary work have you done?

If you want to Email me one of the answers you've used on a previous application I can have a look for you if you like?.

Andy

Thanks Andy, I will rake them out and email you a copy ASAP.
Thanks again

[burgdog]

northern 200
as a 21 year old male myself i have been trying to get in the fire and rescue service now for the past three years!!! and still to no avail. i have a very wide experience of quite a few counties recruitment process and what they are looking for as they said is life experience. but be specific and dont generalise. try to think of a specidfic time/place and scenario and try to expand on it as much as possible. also im not sure what county you are in but try and phone your countys headquarters to see if they do such a thing as voluntary work within there service, i am from cheshire myself and i have been volunteering in 2roles for over 15months now.......... 1 being a community safety advocate volunteer helping carry out home fire safety assessments and the other is a fire cadet leader helping to assisst operational firefighters teach young people the skills that it takes to become a firefighter. if you can get into either of these roles it will give you invaluable experiences within the COMMUNITY and that is what a lot of it is about now help in the COMMUNITY. hope this helps mate

[hannahvca]

Hi Andy,
I realise this is a bit late! but i just spotted your post and thought i might be able to help. I do a lot of work for the FRS and one of my roles has been marking PQA application forms and giving feedback. I was thinking about offereing this as a service for people who want to try to get into the FRS, just because a lot of people do have plenty of potential but are just unclear how to present it in the right way. if you like, get in touch and you can have a go at a couple of questions and i'll give you some feedback on what you are getting right, and what you could improve. all you have to do in return is then give me feedback on whether it was useful/ helped at all. let me know what you think
Hannah
hannahvallance@vca.uk.com

[lfb987]

I dont think the age has any relation to getting in. I was 20 when joined (been in just over 2 years now) and I know several people who got in at same age or younger. Like many people have already said its about the answers you give. Have a look at the pqa's and word your answers accordingly

[kurnal]

Please can I ask you Hannah to give us an outline of the principles involved in assessing the PQAs- the criteria against which they are assessed and the methodology- is there a scale of acceptable/ unacceptable and whether the work you carry out on behalf of FRS are from within the service or as an outside agency or consultant?

[hannahvca]

Hi kurnal
sorry for the delay! hmm, how the PQAs are assessed- that could be a lengthy topic but i can have a go. Do you mean for recruitment application forms? it doesn't make much difference if its for people wanting to get into the FRS or promoted within it, the principles are the same. for each PQA question an assessor will have a list of indicators to guide them. its a question of whether you have given evidence in your answer to match those indicators or not. each of these indicators are taken from the PQAs eg Committmetn to diversity and integrity- one indicator might be about showing a fair and ethical appraoch, another might be showing awareness of community needs. not all indicators fit with the question so they won't all be used, which is why its not as simple as making sure you jam every bit of the PQA into your answer!

as for methodology- unless things have changed, its a simple tick or cross per indicator. so there is an element of assessor subjectivity in it for the borderline answers, the ones where evidence is implied but not clealrly stated. but hopefully assessors used to mark these are trained, to allow consistency. a simialr process in used in interviews where candidates need to 'hit' indicators, but it is easier in some ways in interview assessing as candidate's responses can attract a rating of one to 4, which allows for the nuances of an answer to be rather than just a straight yes or no. there are lots of indicators marked, no one is expected to hit all of them in an application form or interview. the best thing to do is to make sure you are very clear in your example, about exactly what you did, how you did it, why you did it and what the result was.

 as for me, I am a chartered occupational psychologist. i started off in house at strathclyde for 3 years designing their assessment and development centres and providing developmental feedback. i've been freelance for the last 3 years for a wide range of FRS all over the UK providing all sorts of assessment and development related services. i now am focusing on helping individuals learn how to use their potenial (and not fail tests just because they didn't know what to expect or because they haven't had useful feeback on what they need to do differently!) so provide pratice ITOPs, application forms etc and soon pratice ADC type exercises. (www.vca.uk.com if you are interested in who i have worked with)

so lengthy! hope that helps though
Hannah

[tomelse]

Hi Hannah,
thanks for th insight, I have looked at the VCA site but wondered as i am going to be applying to South Yorks in the future (and waiting to hear from West Yorks) if you could take a look at my west yorks app form answers and see what you think.
thanks again
tom

[hannahvca]

Hi tom
send it to me at hannahvallance@vca.uk.com and i'll have a look and give you some pointers. or if you don't have a form already filled in i have a practice one i can send you. i'm away for a couple of weeks from sunday so if you want it before then you may have to be speedy!
Hannah

[firemansam999]

to be honest, i dont think they are after experience.......
was told a few days ago about Beds and lutons last recritement....... NOT 1 single retained firefighter got selected !
and apparently this was admitted my a senior member of the management.....
so really, go in with a smile and shiney shoes!

sammy