Lights or signs for Retained Firefighters

[Mike Buckley]

I think we keep mentioning blues and twos because thats what started this thread.

As far as the IRMP goes then the first thing it will come up with is yes there is a problem, then exactly what the problem is, when it occurs etc. Once the problem has been established then possible solutions can be explored. it does not immediately mean closing stations or moving stations.

[Midland Retty]

Hi Mike

You are totally right

Im just wondering what those solutions might be. Sorry I know that is a daft question, but Im trying to do a little research to pass onto my Watch Commander.


Anyone got any suggestions with say a station not meeting turn out times due to traffic.

(No problem with fire engine getting through once turning out - more issue of responders in private cars getting to the station)

[Mike Buckley]

The first stage is to ask what is the problem from the Authority's point of view. Questions that need to be answered are the old how, why, what, where and when.

How does this affect the response time for the brigade? Can they still get an appliance to an incident in an acceptable time?

Why does it affect the response time? Wider issue here if they can't get an appliance to an incident in a reasonable time what happens if the station is committed to another job?

Where? Which stations are affected by this and how does this affect the brigade?

When? Is it just specific times ie "rush hour" or is it generally during the working day?

Once you have found out what the problem is from an overall view, then look for solution. For instance if it is a real problem at specific times then maybe move a wholetime appliance to a standby location so that the area has adequate cover over the relevant time.

Remember you may look at the problem from the point of view of your station, however the decisions will be made from the point of view of the whole brigade.

[Midland Retty]

That fair comment Mike

Agree with you about viewpoint of Brigade and not just the station.

Problem generally only during rush hour and weekends.

Watch Commander is jitery that station might close!.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

But why do we keep mentioning blues and twos?

I think there is a clue in the title of the thread!!

Anyway, back to the discussion .....

I agree with Mike's points. Just because the private car drivers can't get to the station in time, it doesn't mean it will close. (Although some Authorities do use it and IRMP as a catalyst to do so)
IRMP is about identifying risk ion the Authority area and ensuring that there are adequate resources in the right locations to deal with an incident at those risks.

There are other means available .... mobilising wholetime appliances for example, providing cover at certain times etc etc.

Has no-one considered that when the station first opened the volume of traffic was no where near what it was today? Yours is not the only station to be experiencing the same difficulties.

Employers attitudes have changed too. They can't afford to have half the workforce disappear when an alerter goes off, they have profit to think about! Also companies have moved out of small towns to industrial estates further afield.

There are so many other factors that contribute and yet some of the most fundamental ones have been missed.

[Mike Buckley]

OK The problem is during the rush hour and at weekends. Have a look at your calls and find out what percentage happen during these periods. This will give you a good idea of the problem.

Yes your watch commander may have the jitters about the future of the station however again the problem may not only be the callouts, what is the state of the building for instance? I remember one station that was closed mainly because it was built as an AFS fire station and to bring it up to date needed a full rebuild.

About the only thing you can do is improve yourselves. Make sure you know everything you need to know,keep the kit in top condition, make sure everyone knows the drills and they are good at them and morale is high and enthusiastic. It is easier to close a inefficient station where the crews seem to treat it as a social club rather than a real job. I once had to suggest that one retained station where I attended their drill night should be taken off the run as their drill was so bad they were more of a danger on the fire ground than a help.

[Midland Retty]

But why do we keep mentioning blues and twos?

I think there is a clue in the title of the thread!!

Anyway, back to the discussion .....

I agree with Mike's points. Just because the private car drivers can't get to the station in time, it doesn't mean it will close. (Although some Authorities do use it and IRMP as a catalyst to do so)
IRMP is about identifying risk ion the Authority area and ensuring that there are adequate resources in the right locations to deal with an incident at those risks.

There are other means available .... mobilising wholetime appliances for example, providing cover at certain times etc etc.

Has no-one considered that when the station first opened the volume of traffic was no where near what it was today? Yours is not the only station to be experiencing the same difficulties.

Employers attitudes have changed too. They can't afford to have half the workforce disappear when an alerter goes off, they have profit to think about! Also companies have moved out of small towns to industrial estates further afield.

There are so many other factors that contribute and yet some of the most fundamental ones have been missed.

Lights and signs was the name of the thread.

The points you raised are correct and I don't argue with any of them.

And Im not saying our station is the only one with this problem.

The station first opened in the 1940's since then the town has grown, I doubt todays traffic volumes would have been considered then.

Not enough money in the pot to relocate / rebuild it somewhere more suitable.

They won't post wholetime appliance to tthe area because frankly theyre pretty much at full stretch themselves.

What other fundamentals have we not talked about?

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

I think they've all been covered at some point!!

[toby14483]

By far the best way to keep a station open is to have the local population -taxpayers- on side.

I know of a station... a very small community was due to close and the local population got wind of it. As the old station was knocked down they went mental, raised some of the funds themselves, and paid for the station to be rebuilt as a "Community Fire Station" where lots of community events take place.

So now, this sub 50 shout a year station, cannot be closed. No matter how much the big-wigs want it to be. Which they do.

May not be the exact story, but it's how it was told to me.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Most new stations are designated "Community Fire and Rescue Stations" and provide a facility such as a room which is available to local community groups for meetings etc.

It makes use of a public building and breaks down barriers as ost people have never been in a fire station before.

It's a good way of ensuring it gets used and stays open.

[devon4ever]

So let me get this right....the local fire authority close a retained station and then fundraisers within the community stump up the funds to re-open it....are we falling into a trap here of the local authorities discharging their responsibility of providing fire cover, whilst still raking in the Fire Protection element of the council tax.....what next, close the schools and rely on local mums and dads to educate the village kids......its just a thought!!!!

[Mike Buckley]

No they're already doing that with schools, closing down the local school and bussing the pupils miles to a mega school. I'm waiting to be told I have to wheel my wheely bin full of rubbish and load it into the bin lorry ( I hope I'm joking)

[kurnal]

Mike
Dont forget to pay the driver before you tip that bin in the truck. Some areas are already on a trial scheme to put bar codes on bins and scan them for additional land fill tax charges to be levied.

[Mike Buckley]

Kurnal, sorry mate I have to raise you on that one. Near us they are trying a scheme where they take a sample of bins away to see what people are chucking. Just waiting for the new uniforms for our bin callectors balck uniforms with jack boots.

[fireftrm]

By far the best way to keep a station open is to have the local population -taxpayers- on side.

I know of a station... a very small community was due to close and the local population got wind of it. As the old station was knocked down they went mental, raised some of the funds themselves, and paid for the station to be rebuilt as a "Community Fire Station" where lots of community events take place.

So now, this sub 50 shout a year station, cannot be closed. No matter how much the big-wigs want it to be. Which they do.

May not be the exact story, but it's how it was told to me.

I can find no evidence of this and find that your last line is the most telling? By the way if a local community wanted their own 'Community Fire Station' and were able to raise the £250k+, that it would cost to build, then let them. As to providing an appliance and employing staff to keep it on the run, well now who says that has to be done by the FRA? So maybe the station, as a building, could not be closed, but it would just be a large community multi-use building with a very big garage - unless the FRA wanted to use it.

PS just as well that local community, if they aren't an apocrophyl myth, were so on the ball and keen to maintain an FRS presence. If it were my local station I wouldn't be waiting until they had knocked it down to act, after all it takes over a year to get a decent commercial building up from scratch, planning permission and fundraising not included, so they had no station for a long, long time................ Never mind as the whole story is so full of holes it is following the Titanic.